Version 0.17.60

[DanGio]

Before 17.60, he managed to get them at 1h10m, so there's a consequent difference. But he could probably manage to get them sooner in future runs... we'll see.

Speedrunning the game is a whoole different matter than the normal player.

Anti, Nefrums, rain and all the other speedsters have played the game far more often from start to launch than your avaerage normal 2k hour player.

The fact that speedrunners are delayed by this just menas one thing: the change isnt even simplifying the game. it's making it worse to play.

Wait, I don't claim that game balancing should be considered in the prism of speedrunning. I just said that yes, we can say that bots are now delayed because the same speedrunner had a 20 minutes delay between his 17.59 PB and his 1st 17.60 run bot split.

But yeah, tbh I'm expecting Nefrums to improve on this split. And if he manage to improve it by, like 10 minutes, we'd have to recognize that bots aren't delayed that much by the recent changes. Not in real time (10 minutes) but in overall proportions (1h20 vs 1h10).

[FuryoftheStars]

If you are interested in changes to new player behaviour, advanced players dropping out because of using mods make the numbers more reliable, not less.

Sorry but that is were you are wrong. The advanced players even if they enabled mods at some point for whatever reason during their progression never drop out of the total statistics.

And if at all the number of players who will eventually enable some mod will only increase linked tightly together with the amount of new players.

So you can never get a proper statistic unless you include a way to specifically lock down when each individual player started to use mods in their achievement progression and then substract that player from the total amount of players in any subsequent achievement in the progression because of how he would otherwise falsify them.

Oh, I missed that part of his post. Yes, point well made, MeduSalem.

[RocketManChronicles]

Flamethrowers don't consume much oil though. There is far, far more oil in the tanks and pipes than the flamethrowers fire because the pipes will fill instantly.

Unless you are playing on a Deathworld Marathon map that has the difficulty turned up even more beyond what Deathworld defaults to. My Flamethrower Turrets are almost constantly firing; and since Light Oil has a damage buff, I am burning through Light Oil very quickly. The problem now, is that since I do not have AOP researched yet, my reserves of Light Oil are diminishing because the BOP does not supply it. Now I have to reroute Crude Oil to the Perimeter Wall until I unlock Light Oil again. Frustrating for an existing map, yes; New map, frustrating to not utilize the Flamethrower Turret to its advantage early enough.

I think this would also be a potential issue once you do unlock LO... you now have to wait for your turrets to completely empty themselves of the crude before you can pump in light due to the anti-mixing....

I know, small issue, but still.

It's not that bad, really. I have already set up a pump to pull the Crude Oil out of the Line once Light Oil is detected in a Storage Tank nearby via a Circuit Network. Similarly, the Light Oil will not pump into the feed line until the Crude Oil reaches zero in a temporary storage tank that is inline with aforementioned pump also via Circuit Network. Just a pain to go through really.

It's a shame, Light Oil and Heavy Oil had so many uses prior to Advanced Oil Processing.... and it's gone.

Interesting, have you noticed any practical difference between Crude and Light Oil ?

It always seemed to me that considering the way the Flame Turrets fire, and the damage they do even without any upgrades, that this measly 10% bonus was not worth bothering with (considering the extra required logistics, and the risk of running out of light oil) ?

Early on, it is noticeable against Big Biters/Spitters. This is usually before upgrading the flammables damage for the third or fourth tier, beyond that it starts to become negligible; +10% vs +80% on. When you fall behind the evolution factor, this can be a saving grace, as the damage bonus to Big Spitters literally melts them before they can get a second shot off. And that is what I have noticed, the difference between one or two shots from Spitters between Crude and Light Oil early on.

The other problem is, the Construction Bots are gated now, so you have to run along the walls repairing instead of having the bots repair for you. And this is pretty much all you do now with Crude Oil in the turrets and no Construction Bots, run up and down along walls manually repairing everything until you either research far enough along the flammables damage multiplier or you get Light Oil. Thanks to this change, I spent two hours (so far) repairing walls and turrets rather than getting bots to do so.... two hours of holding repair packs in my cursor...

[Hiladdar]

Regarding Steam release / play and this release

I personally do not like Steam's model, particularity for storing save games in a cloud. Although it is nice if you play on different computers is becomes a real pain trying to load in a 100M+ map, and post changes to a 100M+ map on a slower internet connection, or worst, more expensive when paying by the megabyte. For that reason, I use a stand along dumb box, that happens to be connected to the internet. The other draw back, is although I have won the game many times over and developed massive bases, they are not reflected on Steam as achievements.

Regarding the changes, I would of preferred this to be rolled out after a stable version of .17 or or between .16 to .17 / .17 to .18. I think that in the short run that is way less disruptive to existing maps. I also think that their would not of been as much vitriolic opposition to this change had a stable version been introduced, or a way to play with the pre or post oil changes on vanilla via the setup settings. For this reason, to me, it felt that the this change was rushed and as a player and mod developer, my feedback was ignored.

I do not like the over simplification of oil. It replaces flexibility with simplification. I do like the reservation of the inputs on the oil refinery. I do not like the substitution sulfur for solid fuel. To me it is replacing one product with a similar product, and in the end does nothing. With the early creation of solid fuel, I usually switched my trains to solid fuel. This is no longer as easy. I do not like pushing construction bots to later in the game. I think that this is detrimental to a game focused on automation, and construction bots automate building of bases and outposts. I am neutral about the changes to lasers. In the short run, they are weaker, and in the long run stronger. At the stage of the game when they are stronger, my my maps, biters are no longer an issue. I do not think there was an issue with flamethrower ammo. But with the oil refining changes, I see where that had to be implemented. I am neutral on the ability to pump crude directly into a turret in my opinion nice quality of life improvement as well as another simplification to the game.

I still think the real issue between green and blue tech, is not any one particular tech or process, but the amount of new balls that the player has to juggle, such as trains, outposts, perimeter base defense, upgrade of smelters, belts, assemblers, chemical processing, base expansion, and power issues. In addition to all that, much of that has to be learned from scratch by the newer players. For this reason, I think that better tutorial and campaign would of benefit newer player much more.

Hiladdar

[BlueTemplar]

[...]
Regarding the changes, I would of preferred this to be rolled out after a stable version of .17 or or between .16 to .17 / .17 to .18. I think that in the short run that is way less disruptive to existing maps. I also think that their would not of been as much vitriolic opposition to this change had a stable version been introduced, or a way to play with the pre or post oil changes on vanilla via the setup settings. For this reason, to me, it felt that the this change was rushed and as a player and mod developer, my feedback was ignored.
[...]

(emphasis mine)
You have to think of all of the players (most of them?) that are waiting for the first stable to hit to play 0.17 (often without even knowing it).
----

[...]
I am neutral on the ability to pump crude directly into a turret in my opinion nice quality of life improvement as well as another simplification to the game.
[...]

This has been possible since the introduction of Flame Turrets.

[...]
Interesting, have you noticed any practical difference between Crude and Light Oil ?

It always seemed to me that considering the way the Flame Turrets fire, and the damage they do even without any upgrades, that this measly 10% bonus was not worth bothering with (considering the extra required logistics, and the risk of running out of light oil) ?

Early on, it is noticeable against Big Biters/Spitters. This is usually before upgrading the flammables damage for the third or fourth tier, beyond that it starts to become negligible; +10% vs +80% on. When you fall behind the evolution factor, this can be a saving grace, as the damage bonus to Big Spitters literally melts them before they can get a second shot off. And that is what I have noticed, the difference between one or two shots from Spitters between Crude and Light Oil early on.

The other problem is, the Construction Bots are gated now, so you have to run along the walls repairing instead of having the bots repair for you. And this is pretty much all you do now with Crude Oil in the turrets and no Construction Bots, run up and down along walls manually repairing everything until you either research far enough along the flammables damage multiplier or you get Light Oil. Thanks to this change, I spent two hours (so far) repairing walls and turrets rather than getting bots to do so.... two hours of holding repair packs in my cursor...

Oh right, yeah, doubling the damage the spitters deal in the process... I can see how that +10% would be impactful !

It sounds like you might want to try the same strategy than I did, and use less walls, and also rather keep your pollution in check until you are ready to go out on the offensive and wipe out the nests... if that strategy is still viable with your game settings of course !

----

[...]
But just for the shits and giggles of a heated discussion this may cause... just imagine if we take the above achievement progression as the standard... and now the devs come to the conclusion "man, a lot of people quit due to the difficulty rail setups impose... let's do something about rails" and then end up axing part of the rail experience, leaving it in a rather questionable state. The outcries from all the hardcore rail guys would probably be even more extreme as they are about the oil industry.
[...]

Well, isn't it pretty much what happened with the rail planner ?

[crambaza]

Before 17.60, he managed to get them at 1h10m, so there's a consequent difference. But he could probably manage to get them sooner in future runs... we'll see.

Speedrunning the game is a whoole different matter than the normal player.

Anti, Nefrums, rain and all the other speedsters have played the game far more often from start to launch than your avaerage normal 2k hour player.

The fact that speedrunners are delayed by this just menas one thing: the change isnt even simplifying the game. it's making it worse to play.

Wait, I don't claim that game balancing should be considered in the prism of speedrunning. I just said that yes, we can say that bots are now delayed because the same speedrunner had a 20 minutes delay between his 17.59 PB and his 1st 17.60 run bot split.

But yeah, tbh I'm expecting Nefrums to improve on this split. And if he manage to improve it by, like 10 minutes, we'd have to recognize that bots aren't delayed that much by the recent changes. Not in real time (10 minutes) but in overall proportions (1h20 vs 1h10).

Well, let's properly scale it up.

Nefrums finishes default in about 3 hours. New Oil MAY get sped up to only be a 10 minute delay in construction bots.

The regular player finishes in... 10 9 - 20 18 - 40 36 hours? (who are we kidding, there are lots that never finish! ) (And I made the math easier by striking the harder to use numbers!)

So now, that's 3x, 6x and 12x longer to finish, and converting to "bot time" 30 minutes, 60 minutes, 120 minutes longer when we scale it up.

So for regular folk, the Bot delay, at it's best is 30-120 minutes. OUCH!

[lovewyrm]

Imagine everyone had to write their posts with the mouse and a virtual onscreen keyboard until 100 posts, then real keyboard use gets unlocked.

That's how I see (the lack of ) vanilla early game bot(s).

I'm still standing by my wish for at least one singular feeble bot that can build, deconstruct and cut trees but will "hide" inside the player when there's enemies.
A bot companion could also act as a logical device for technology.
Maybe it can be sacrificed (aka given up) to research the real bots, by basically ripping out its AI and using it as a "lore" springboard to replicate it en masse.
It's also nice to have a companion. Even in desolation.

It would also give the cut and paste command a meaning earlygame. It also "teaches" basic bot usage instead of having to learn it while you're now running a comparatively complex factory, while robot usage is actually pretty easy. The building/deconstruction part anyway.

But yeah, in case my original post fell under the "Agressive Category" that should be purged for quipping at Wube killing and destroying us.
That's fair if I do, but you really, really, really, really really need to put the sides into perspective.

There's only that many of you Wube guys, so if I (or anyone ) goes "Come on Wube, you already have the solution for better ergonomics in the game", I'm only mentally 'hurting' as many people as there are Wube staff who decide on these issues.

But on the other hand, everyone who bought the game has to deal with the real and physical repercussions of needless clicking.
That's a VASTLY disproportionate difference of both degree of "hurt" and amount of people getting hurt.

I was being facetious, silly, stupid, but I wanted to still make it an honest plea because the effects ARE real and the mouse IS the main input scheme and mice are rarely even remotely ergonomic, even the ergonomic ones, as long as they are horizontal, your hand posture is not natural, the range of motion is not very conductive to how the fingers want to curl, etc.

So, yeah, if you disagree, try writing your reply to me with only the mouse (aka one handed) and an onscreen keyboard versus the keyboard and (if you can do it) touch typing. I trust you to do that, on your honor.
If you think I'm full of it, do that. You're doing it every day in factorio after all, why not here?
Because it's actually awful and Factorio simply is such a good game that it makes the pain less obvious, but that doesn't mean the pain doesn't exist.

[DanGio]

Before 17.60, he managed to get them at 1h10m, so there's a consequent difference. But he could probably manage to get them sooner in future runs... we'll see.

Speedrunning the game is a whoole different matter than the normal player.

Anti, Nefrums, rain and all the other speedsters have played the game far more often from start to launch than your avaerage normal 2k hour player.

The fact that speedrunners are delayed by this just menas one thing: the change isnt even simplifying the game. it's making it worse to play.

Wait, I don't claim that game balancing should be considered in the prism of speedrunning. I just said that yes, we can say that bots are now delayed because the same speedrunner had a 20 minutes delay between his 17.59 PB and his 1st 17.60 run bot split.

But yeah, tbh I'm expecting Nefrums to improve on this split. And if he manage to improve it by, like 10 minutes, we'd have to recognize that bots aren't delayed that much by the recent changes. Not in real time (10 minutes) but in overall proportions (1h20 vs 1h10).

Well, let's properly scale it up.

Nefrums finishes default in about 3 hours. New Oil MAY get sped up to only be a 10 minute delay in construction bots.

The regular player finishes in... 10 9 - 20 18 - 40 36 hours? (who are we kidding, there are lots that never finish! ) (And I made the math easier by striking the harder to use numbers!)

So now, that's 3x, 6x and 12x longer to finish, and converting to "bot time" 30 minutes, 60 minutes, 120 minutes longer when we scale it up.

So for regular folk, the Bot delay, at it's best is 30-120 minutes. OUCH!

And even 50h on a 900h walkthrough. But in proportion, I think that's not as terrible as many feared. Only time and testing will tell. Maybe sub90 bots is impossible, maybe 70 min bots is doable.

[Yijare]

But yeah, tbh I'm expecting Nefrums to improve on this split. And if he manage to improve it by, like 10 minutes, we'd have to recognize that bots aren't delayed that much by the recent changes. Not in real time (10 minutes) but in overall proportions (1h20 vs 1h10).

Translate those 10 Minutes into a normal-player and you have HOURS that go by before they even can consider having bots. and yes having personal construction bots for the first time is a huuuge improvement over manually doing things. But here I stand still oposing the removal of the pickaxe from the game.

Not having to craft the pick just destroyed a essential part of the game. We got rid of it because it was delaying players who where BDU. And because some palyer don't like the micro-management of the game and yet we are here complaining about oil-changes, which are micromanagement issues. Still BDU.


In my opinion 0.17.x gave us one one good thing and that is the undo/redo functionallity of the blueprints. other than that, i just see things that got worse.

• GUI > game was robbed of its charm..

• HD-textures of the Ores > i'd rather take the low res than those.

• Removal of the Pick > first real BS of this version.

• Change to oil-processing > second BS of this version.

the cons just keep growing. I'd rather stay pre-0.17 than having to put up with this bollocks.

As I said multiple times before, simplicifaction of the game wont make it better. it makes it worse. and it won't help getting 'new players' to best oil.
But as many stated - it's WUBEs game and we dont mean a dime in this.

[florus2901]

I do not like the oil changes.

This made me lock the updates.

But yeah, tbh I'm expecting Nefrums to improve on this split. And if he manage to improve it by, like 10 minutes, we'd have to recognize that bots aren't delayed that much by the recent changes. Not in real time (10 minutes) but in overall proportions (1h20 vs 1h10).

Translate those 10 Minutes into a normal-player and you have HOURS that go by before they even can consider having bots. and yes having personal construction bots for the first time is a huuuge improvement over manually doing things. But here I stand still oposing the removal of the pickaxe from the game.

Not having to craft the pick just destroyed a essential part of the game. We got rid of it because it was delaying players who where BDU. And because some palyer don't like the micro-management of the game and yet we are here complaining about oil-changes, which are micromanagement issues. Still BDU.


In my opinion 0.17.x gave us one one good thing and that is the undo/redo functionallity of the blueprints. other than that, i just see things that got worse.

• GUI > game was robbed of its charm..

• HD-textures of the Ores > i'd rather take the low res than those.

• Removal of the Pick > first real BS of this version.

• Change to oil-processing > second BS of this version.

the cons just keep growing. I'd rather stay pre-0.17 than having to put up with this bollocks.

As I said multiple times before, simplicifaction of the game wont make it better. it makes it worse. and it won't help getting 'new players' to best oil.
But as many stated - it's WUBEs game and we dont mean a dime in this.

I totaly agree. Let us work for stuf.

DAM BLASTED HELLL THIS NEW UPDATE KILLED MY SAVE FILE..

[Astrella]

But yeah, tbh I'm expecting Nefrums to improve on this split. And if he manage to improve it by, like 10 minutes, we'd have to recognize that bots aren't delayed that much by the recent changes. Not in real time (10 minutes) but in overall proportions (1h20 vs 1h10).

Translate those 10 Minutes into a normal-player and you have HOURS that go by before they even can consider having bots. and yes having personal construction bots for the first time is a huuuge improvement over manually doing things. But here I stand still oposing the removal of the pickaxe from the game.

Not having to craft the pick just destroyed a essential part of the game. We got rid of it because it was delaying players who where BDU. And because some palyer don't like the micro-management of the game and yet we are here complaining about oil-changes, which are micromanagement issues. Still BDU.


In my opinion 0.17.x gave us one one good thing and that is the undo/redo functionallity of the blueprints. other than that, i just see things that got worse.

• GUI > game was robbed of its charm..

• HD-textures of the Ores > i'd rather take the low res than those.

• Removal of the Pick > first real BS of this version.

• Change to oil-processing > second BS of this version.

the cons just keep growing. I'd rather stay pre-0.17 than having to put up with this bollocks.

As I said multiple times before, simplicifaction of the game wont make it better. it makes it worse. and it won't help getting 'new players' to best oil.
But as many stated - it's WUBEs game and we dont mean a dime in this.

I mean, it's opinion that those things are meaningful simplification of the game. I love the new UI, mining picks removal is only really an issue for mods, it didn't add any logistical challenges to the core game. Oil change moves things around.

I honestly find all the disdain towards people that might struggle with certain mechanics displayed in the recent discussions very offputting.

[nafira]

Balancing
Basic oil processing produces only Petroleum gas, for more streamlined oil setup in the beginning.

This is the only thing that I disagree with, but I think it's important. You're shifting the problem for later. And not like 50h later, more like 5h later.
Your goal is to simplify, but instead, you wait for the player to have a bigger base to drop him off the cliff.

If we had to use numbers, those would be level of complexity :
No Oil : 0%
Basic Oil : 80%
Advanced Oil : 100%

Clearly, it was not balanced.

Now those are the numbers :
No Oil : 0%
Basic Oil : 30%
Advanced Oil : 100%

By removing the "more than 1 output" recipe, you cut a lot of what the player has to learn.
Yes the first step is easier, but the second is not that simple.

I'm pretty confident that recipe balancing is good, but that, which is just a problem for beginners, will not solve what you intended to do : simplify Oil.

[Pi-C]

The regular player finishes in... 10 9 - 20 18 - 40 36 hours? (who are we kidding, there are lots that never finish! )

Seeing such numbers, I can't help wondering what am I doing wrong. How do regular players play? I'm about a hundred hours into my current (heavily modded, but no early bots) game, have got a temporary set up of chemical science working (but no oil yet -- plastic comes from petroleum gas generated by gasification of wood produced (but not yet enough to allow the self-sustaining production of wood, coal, and fuel) with Bio Industries and a partial mall. I've made some blueprints (one time sink was coming up with my own 4-6-/6-4-balancer because I've used six lines of iron/copper plates on my main bus for the first time), and I've already laid out most of the production lines along my main bus (blindfolded: getting info on recipes from What is it really used for?, so I just need to fill in the blank recipes in the assembling machines to start production once the technology has been researched). Naturally, I don't have bots yet, so everything in existence has been placed manually. Also, I like playing with circuits -- and that certainly is an area where one can spend lots of time debugging. Nevertheless, I've already played three or four times longer then what seems normal for regular players and a rocket launch still seems still far, far away. Do you come into a new game with a full stack of blueprints ready to plop down, do you just strive to complete the game? Or am I just going way too slow?

[DanGio]

The regular player finishes in... 10 9 - 20 18 - 40 36 hours? (who are we kidding, there are lots that never finish! )

Seeing such numbers, I can't help wondering what am I doing wrong. How do regular players play? I'm about a hundred hours into my current (heavily modded, but no early bots) game, have got a temporary set up of chemical science working (but no oil yet -- plastic comes from petroleum gas generated by gasification of wood produced (but not yet enough to allow the self-sustaining production of wood, coal, and fuel) with Bio Industries and a partial mall. I've made some blueprints (one time sink was coming up with my own 4-6-/6-4-balancer because I've used six lines of iron/copper plates on my main bus for the first time), and I've already laid out most of the production lines along my main bus (blindfolded: getting info on recipes from What is it really used for?, so I just need to fill in the blank recipes in the assembling machines to start production once the technology has been researched). Naturally, I don't have bots yet, so everything in existence has been placed manually. Also, I like playing with circuits -- and that certainly is an area where one can spend lots of time debugging. Nevertheless, I've already played three or four times longer then what seems normal for regular players and a rocket launch still seems still far, far away. Do you come into a new game with a full stack of blueprints ready to plop down, do you just strive to complete the game? Or am I just going way too slow?

Those times are vanilla, of course you're doing nothing wrong with your modded playthrough

Even in vanilla, like Crambaza said, many playthrough never get to rocket because there's so much to explore besides the main "quest".

[FuryoftheStars]

I honestly find all the disdain towards people that might struggle with certain mechanics displayed in the recent discussions very offputting.

But is it the mechanic that has been changed what is really causing the struggle? That is what we're trying to get at.

[meganothing]

What you are saying is to make note of this percentage, wait a month, then look at the new stat? This is still comparing to all history.

No.

Wube surely gets absolute number of players at any time (developers have access to a lot more statistics, details and exact numbers, not a simple rounded percentage). Even if they only got a percentage, if it isn't rounded they can easily convert that to absolute numbers.

Example with made-up numbers:
Number of copies sold in February 1, 2019: 2.222.000
Number of copies sold in March 30, 2019: 2.224.000
Rocket Achievements on April 1, 2019: 123.000
Rocket Achievements on April 1, 2019: 123.456

means 456 players in Apri 2019 got the rocket achievement when approximately 1000 new players per month tried the game. So approximately 45,6% of new players have reached the rocket achievement.

Do the same for November 2019 and you have history-free numbers to compare

[mmmPI]

This is the only thing that I disagree with, but I think it's important. You're shifting the problem for later. And not like 50h later, more like 5h later.
Your goal is to simplify, but instead, you wait for the player to have a bigger base to drop him off the cliff.

I'm pretty confident that recipe balancing is good, but that, which is just a problem for beginners, will not solve what you intended to do : simplify Oil.

I would say the intent was not to simplify the game ( not wanting to change AOP ) , but rather to make easier to learn (the same thing).

" the shifting the problem for later" was a problem for me at first because i don't see how i teach better anything, but it was pointed out during discussion that the problem was not the complexity/difficulty itself but rather the fact that many steps were occuring at once.

And you could face a wall, you were stuck before you had resolved the "oil-challenge" which is dealing with pipes, scaling up the factory for blue science, understanding that you need a circuit control cracking system after you beeline Adavance oil processing , also making sure the output of the refinery aren't full, and making the production chain for the 3 different fluid.

This was altogether put on the player at the same time, what you call the delay of 5h is maybe too short it is in a way supposed to help the players focus on less things at a time.

means 456 players in Apri 2019 got the rocket achievement when approximately 1000 new players per month tried the game. So approximately 45,6% of new players have reached the rocket achievement.

Not sure about that one. This could means many older player got to launch their first rocket unmodded, and 0% new player launched a rocket.

[Yijare]

I mean, it's opinion that those things are meaningful simplification of the game. I love the new UI, mining picks removal is only really an issue for mods, it didn't add any logistical challenges to the core game. Oil change moves things around.

I honestly find all the disdain towards people that might struggle with certain mechanics displayed in the recent discussions very offputting.

the UI is something I can arange myself with, still imho it robbed the game of its charm. now it looks like a sleek thing that apple would sell and has no personallity whatsoever.

Picks are not an issue for mods, lol. meaningful simplicifaction - in a game that is all about COMPLEXITY! wrap your head about that. just once.

I find it more offputing that the core issue as why there is struggle with those mechanics is dealt with in this manner. Oil was simpler than anything that needs solids, fluids and then some. If you can't handle 3 inputs and the same amount of outputs, then, by all emans, you dont have gotten the gist of the game in all the hours before.
And making the game simpler because players don't want to play, but to just coast along, is the wrong way of development. it kills the game. i have seen that plenty a time.

[jodokus31]

...mining picks removal is only really an issue for mods, it didn't add any logistical challenges to the core game...

Mining picks and assembler limits together with lazy bastard was a very nice challenge. That with "Get on track like a pro". But also later for oil refinieries, which could be only crafted in assembler 3. I do miss it.

[meganothing]

Sorry but that is were you are wrong. The advanced players even if they enabled mods at some point for whatever reason during their progression never drop out of the total statistics.

...

That said what you can do though and what BlueTemplar wrote about and what I think he meant is the change from month to month, which you can measure though. There might be more people making it through to certain achievements as an directly measurable effect of the change.

Really, why assume a braindead process of comparing percentages since year one if it is quite obvious that you only look at the difference between two months? In the same post you were answering to I explained the same process BlueTemplar wrote about, obviously not well enough.

Month to month change. Isn't it obvious that is the only sensible way?