[0.18.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[bobingabout]

Hello!

I started playing full pack of mods some days ago. And was wondering about recipes decomposition. The total raw components actually not showing all the basic materials, which for me is crutial. Very often they include some craftable components. I see it's not a bug, because of lots of "allow_decomposition = flase", but I can't understand why? I wonder it causes some problems? Or can I change everything to "allow_decomposition = true" without consequences if I want to? For example, I changed some electronics recipes and it works fine as I see:

I may have gone a little over the top with the "allow_decomposition = flase" tag, but the main reason why I did it was because... you'd look at some materials, and it would tell you a list of things that was just confusing.

So, I looked, and set some key points. Metal plates was the first example, I mean, if you're the miner class you CAN smelt by hand, but for the most part, if you're looking at that GUI, you want to know what a standard class can craft by hand, so you want to know how many of each type of metal plates you need, not all the ingredients to make the plate. Hand crafting does try to decompose to what you can hand craft, so the fact that the miners looked totally different because he can do smelting by hand was odd, which could be why I set metals.
on top of that, looking at the tech tree doesn't limit by what you can hand craft, so everything used to decompose right down the list and tell you some pretty damn strange things, right down to oil, air, water, and ores. Trust me, the tech tree's version of the list just confused most people
Along with that, it was decomposing anything that cost wood through the advanced greenhouse recipe, so instead of telling you that you needed wood, it would tell you that you needed a very strange quantity of wood, air, and water. (to make that wood from the advanced greenhouse recipe, AND then decomposing seedlings to the raw wood count for that too)

There were also cases where if you had other mods installed, or some production chains that held multiple, or cyclic paths, you'd point to an item and the game would lock up for several seconds while it tried to calculate the raw materials, so to fix that I added some road-blocks that it wouldn't look past.



If there are any specific examples you're saying should be decomposable when I've set them to not be, then please make specific suggestions, and I'll look into it, but hopefully now you know why I've set it to be so limiting.

[LordZeppelin]

I may have gone a little over the top with the "allow_decomposition = flase" tag, but the main reason why I did it was because... you'd look at some materials, and it would tell you a list of things that was just confusing.

So, I looked, and set some key points. Metal plates was the first example, I mean, if you're the miner class you CAN smelt by hand, but for the most part, if you're looking at that GUI, you want to know what a standard class can craft by hand, so you want to know how many of each type of metal plates you need, not all the ingredients to make the plate. Hand crafting does try to decompose to what you can hand craft, so the fact that the miners looked totally different because he can do smelting by hand was odd, which could be why I set metals.
on top of that, looking at the tech tree doesn't limit by what you can hand craft, so everything used to decompose right down the list and tell you some pretty damn strange things, right down to oil, air, water, and ores. Trust me, the tech tree's version of the list just confused most people
Along with that, it was decomposing anything that cost wood through the advanced greenhouse recipe, so instead of telling you that you needed wood, it would tell you that you needed a very strange quantity of wood, air, and water. (to make that wood from the advanced greenhouse recipe, AND then decomposing seedlings to the raw wood count for that too)

There were also cases where if you had other mods installed, or some production chains that held multiple, or cyclic paths, you'd point to an item and the game would lock up for several seconds while it tried to calculate the raw materials, so to fix that I added some road-blocks that it wouldn't look past.



If there are any specific examples you're saying should be decomposable when I've set them to not be, then please make specific suggestions, and I'll look into it, but hopefully now you know why I've set it to be so limiting.

Thank you for the deep response!
Yes, I see your point and those things are really hard to balance. I've just started with your mods and I can't specify lot's of examples, except for curcuit boards, which can be crafted by hand. I started to dig this situation actually trying to craft something with these boards. In case of not decomopsing them GUI tells that I cannot craft a component (board) and indictes it with red, but actually I can, what is going across the hand crafting indication system. I hope some recipes are safe to be decomposed, but of course I don't see the full picture and consequences and I just describe my impressions. Thank your for the great game experience by the way!


Update:
I was looking for examples and checked all my available recipes and found following, which I think could be decomposed. P.S. I didn't check all the recipes in creative mode to not spoil my future gameplay.

• basic-circuit-board
• solder
• tinned-copper-cable
• electronic-circuit
• advanced-circuit
• insulated-cable

BTW I have all mods installed, not only electronics.

[bobingabout]

I was looking for examples and checked all my available recipes and found following, which I think could be decomposed. P.S. I didn't check all the recipes in creative mode to not spoil my future gameplay.

• basic-circuit-board
• solder
• tinned-copper-cable
• electronic-circuit
• advanced-circuit
• insulated-cable

BTW I have all mods installed, not only electronics.

Yeah, the Electronics ones were basically done as a consistency thing.

Some of them, especially those requiring fluids can ONLY be made in a machine. this includes all the later electronic components, and boards (just the board, not the assembled one with components on them)
So, for example, resistors would tell you that you needed copper, tin and carbon (because you make the tinned copper wire with copper and tin, then the resistor from carbon and tinned copper wire), but then the logic chip would just say... logic chip, because it requires sulfuric acid.
So for consistency, all electronic components were changed to not be decomposed, so that it always told you exactly how many electronic components you required.

I don't think the wires had the same issue, they all decomposed, but I set it anyway, because they're an electronic component, Same with Solder (the wire.)

And I think I did the same with electronic circuit boards, because... you're already not decomposing the boards, so it would just tell you that you needed a set of boards and a whole heap of electronic components, so instead it now just tells you which completed circuit boards you need.
And this is fairly important, because a lot of early recipes require a board with no electronic components on it, so you can tell at a glance which recipes need the competed board, and which also require the incomplete board.
And if something tells you that you actually need electronic components, rather than a completed board, you KNOW you actually need those components directly, Some recipes (Typically anything that contains the word Module or Brain in it's name) require electronic components, instead of completed circuits.


So, yeah, while it may seem confusing at the earlier stages of the game, it makes more sense in the long run for it to not decompose these electronic items.

Just keep in mind that this isn't base game, the base game decomposes down to 3 metal plates, coal, stone, wood, uranium, some oil products, and then maybe some higher tier things made with fluids like engine units and batteries... the list can easily be counted on your fingers, so fully decomposing everything isn't an issue.
My mod on the other hand... has as many metal plates as base game has decomposed items in total. The sheer complexity of it benefits from simplification in some areas. As such, consistency between higher and lower tier items (as exampled above with electronics) was recommended to reduce confusion.

[bobingabout]

The RTG update phase 2: it's now used for something!

Also, classes update too.

Code: Select all

Classes 0.18.4:
RTGs can be a component of the Power core.
Added new T2 classes, Balanced 2, Builder 2, Fighter 2, Miner 2, Engineer and Prospector, which all need to be researched before they can be chosen.
Fixed unknown locale entry "gui.open-in-map" error (base game changed it to gui-train.open-in-map)
Avatar switcher GUI now displays Class icon instead of item icon.
Added the ability to set your own icon for your characters. (click the pencil icon to enter edit mode, then click on the set icon button while holding an item)
Fixed Builder class build speed was +20% when it should have been double.
Added a script to update bonuses on configuration change.
Moved electric engine unit and chest ingredient from body recipe to frame recipe

Greenhouse 0.18.1:
Added wood pellets as a fuel item

Library 0.18.6:
Added function bobmods.lib.tech.has_prerequisite(technology, prerequisite), returns true if technology has prerequisite on it's prerequisites list
Added function bobmods.lib.tech.has_prerequisite_in_tree(technology, prerequisite), same as above, but recursively checks all prerequisites of prerequisites
Added function bobmods.lib.tech.has_prerequisite_in_tree_only(technology, prerequisite), same as above, but doesn't check for the prerequisite on that technology
Added function bobmods.lib.tech.get_redundant_prerequisites(technology), which returns a table of prerequisites that exist in the prerequisites tree of other prerequisites on the technology
Added function bobmods.lib.tech.get_redundant_prerequisites_smart(technology), Same as above, but doesn't include derivatives of it's own name. (performs a filter on the name for letters, meaning it drops numbers and dashes from a typical technology name, then compares) EG: automation 2 won't return automation in the list.
Added function bobmods.lib.tech.prerequisite_cleanup(), which scans all technologies and deletes prerequisites as found by the above function.
function bobmods.lib.tech.prerequisite_cleanup() is called in the data-final-fixes phase of loading.

Logistics 0.18.8:
Added RTGs as a prefered option for fusion powered robots.
Updated the Express/Ultimate (name depends if you have inserter overhaul turned on) inserters are now clones of fast/filter/stack/stack-filter vanilla inserters (Like the other inserter overhaul inserters) to fix issues with the 0.18.18 inserter sound update.
Fixed library log error messages when Roboports are disabled.
Fixed icon mipmap log error messages

MCI 0.18.7:
removed production science pack from nuclear fuel reprocessing and plutonium fuel cell technologies
Fixed icon mipmap log error messages
Balance: Resin from oil now gives 2 per run. (it was actually cheaper to make it from wood when you consider the synthetic wood recipe)
Added a wood to coal recipe.

Revamp 0.18.3:
removed production science pack from RTGs technology.
In Nuclear overhaul, moved the fuel cell unlock to the related nuclear power technology, and changed some prerequisites to suit.
With RTGs on, the Satalite (for space science) uses 20 RTGs instead of 100 solar panels, and only 50 accumulators/batteries.
Recoloured the RTG to an orangey yellow colour, like Plutonium glow.
Fixed missing locale entry on calcium-chloride recipe by setting main_product
Moved Brine and Ammoniated brine recipes to the fluid tab.

Before you complain that Builder/Miner and Fighter/Miner hybrid classes were created, but not a Builder/Fighter class... Everything that's a buff on a fighter is a nerf on a builder, and vica verca, except for the increased build speed, so you'd end up with balanced class with +build speed... it doesn't really fit like the other combined classes do.

And, if you've ever looked at the log file when bob's mods is running, there was a HUGE block of text complaining about all the redundant prerequisites.
Some of them I could fix, others not so easy, as prerequisites change depending on what options you've selected, and although, yes, I COULD have fixed it, it would have required even more if else blocks around the place. And you know what I'm like, I'm much more likely to ignore this sort of thing and just add new features instead.
So I decided to take the easy route, and added a new set of functions to the library instead, and the library runs a cleanup function in it's data-final-fixes stage. That's what the library update is all about. But now it has a little over a dozen lines to list half a dozen redundancies (Because I decided that if a technology has a previous version of itself as a prerequisite, it shouldn't be removed) instead of close to a hundred.

[brysamo]

Added an RTG(Radio-Thermo-electric Generator) intermediate item, which requires Plutonium and the new Sodium cobaltate

That's...a hell of a change for mega-factories. I think I'm done updating my mods until I'm done with this play through

[bobingabout]

Code: Select all

Library 0.18.7:
Added function bobmods.lib.tech.get_prerequisites(technology), which returns a copy of the prerequisites table on a technology.
Added function bobmods.lib.tech.get_prerequisites_in_tree(technology), which returns a table of technology names including it's prerequisites table, and the prerequisites of those prerequisites, recursively.
function bobmods.lib.tech.prerequisite_cleanup() now uses a cached version of the functions to save a lot of loading time going through all the technologies.

Apparently, feedback from the people who have tried it, for the people who were having slow loading issues, this makes a significant difference.

[hylke94]

I started a new playthrough with Bob's en Angels. I like the startup challenge thus far.

I was running in a lot of issues with research with some extra Angels mod settings ticked on. So I reverted those settings.

The problem I'm running into now, is the fact that I have researched all the yellow/automation science pack. But the red/transport science pack is still unavailable for me.. If I search for it in the tech tree, it doesn't come up either.

It's is probably another incompatibility somewhere, nut I can't find it.. Someone any suggestion?

[bobingabout]

I started a new playthrough with Bob's en Angels. I like the startup challenge thus far.

I was running in a lot of issues with research with some extra Angels mod settings ticked on. So I reverted those settings.

The problem I'm running into now, is the fact that I have researched all the yellow/automation science pack. But the red/transport science pack is still unavailable for me.. If I search for it in the tech tree, it doesn't come up either.

It's is probably another incompatibility somewhere, nut I can't find it.. Someone any suggestion?

It's possible that it's an odd interaction with angels mods.

do you have burner phase turned on or not? (though, that wouldn't be much of an issue for transport science, more with automation science.

[hylke94]

I started a new playthrough with Bob's en Angels. I like the startup challenge thus far.

I was running in a lot of issues with research with some extra Angels mod settings ticked on. So I reverted those settings.

The problem I'm running into now, is the fact that I have researched all the yellow/automation science pack. But the red/transport science pack is still unavailable for me.. If I search for it in the tech tree, it doesn't come up either.

It's is probably another incompatibility somewhere, nut I can't find it.. Someone any suggestion?

It's possible that it's an odd interaction with angels mods.

do you have burner phase turned on or not? (though, that wouldn't be much of an issue for transport science, more with automation science.

The burner phase was giving a lot of issues with the first pack indeed. Nothing is (yet) compatible with each other their it seems like .
So no, this one is turned of now. It got me all the way through the first pack now (it is quite easier without ;p), but for some reason I don't have access to the second pack now..

[bobingabout]

I started a new playthrough with Bob's en Angels. I like the startup challenge thus far.

I was running in a lot of issues with research with some extra Angels mod settings ticked on. So I reverted those settings.

The problem I'm running into now, is the fact that I have researched all the yellow/automation science pack. But the red/transport science pack is still unavailable for me.. If I search for it in the tech tree, it doesn't come up either.

It's is probably another incompatibility somewhere, nut I can't find it.. Someone any suggestion?

It's possible that it's an odd interaction with angels mods.

do you have burner phase turned on or not? (though, that wouldn't be much of an issue for transport science, more with automation science.

The burner phase was giving a lot of issues with the first pack indeed. Nothing is (yet) compatible with each other their it seems like .
So no, this one is turned of now. It got me all the way through the first pack now (it is quite easier without ;p), but for some reason I don't have access to the second pack now..

I don't know what's going on there...

[hylke94]

I started a new playthrough with Bob's en Angels. I like the startup challenge thus far.

I was running in a lot of issues with research with some extra Angels mod settings ticked on. So I reverted those settings.

The problem I'm running into now, is the fact that I have researched all the yellow/automation science pack. But the red/transport science pack is still unavailable for me.. If I search for it in the tech tree, it doesn't come up either.

It's is probably another incompatibility somewhere, nut I can't find it.. Someone any suggestion?

It's possible that it's an odd interaction with angels mods.

do you have burner phase turned on or not? (though, that wouldn't be much of an issue for transport science, more with automation science.

The burner phase was giving a lot of issues with the first pack indeed. Nothing is (yet) compatible with each other their it seems like .
So no, this one is turned of now. It got me all the way through the first pack now (it is quite easier without ;p), but for some reason I don't have access to the second pack now..

I don't know what's going on there...

Which tech should unlock it? I'm willing to try every settings, but it would help to know where to start

[bobingabout]

I started a new playthrough with Bob's en Angels. I like the startup challenge thus far.

I was running in a lot of issues with research with some extra Angels mod settings ticked on. So I reverted those settings.

The problem I'm running into now, is the fact that I have researched all the yellow/automation science pack. But the red/transport science pack is still unavailable for me.. If I search for it in the tech tree, it doesn't come up either.

It's is probably another incompatibility somewhere, nut I can't find it.. Someone any suggestion?

It's possible that it's an odd interaction with angels mods.

do you have burner phase turned on or not? (though, that wouldn't be much of an issue for transport science, more with automation science.

The burner phase was giving a lot of issues with the first pack indeed. Nothing is (yet) compatible with each other their it seems like .
So no, this one is turned of now. It got me all the way through the first pack now (it is quite easier without ;p), but for some reason I don't have access to the second pack now..

I don't know what's going on there...

Which tech should unlock it? I'm willing to try every settings, but it would help to know where to start

In bob's mods with burner phase on... Lab
with burner mode off... nothing, you should just be able to research it, it's a starting entry tech.

[hylke94]

It's possible that it's an odd interaction with angels mods.

do you have burner phase turned on or not? (though, that wouldn't be much of an issue for transport science, more with automation science.

The burner phase was giving a lot of issues with the first pack indeed. Nothing is (yet) compatible with each other their it seems like .
So no, this one is turned of now. It got me all the way through the first pack now (it is quite easier without ;p), but for some reason I don't have access to the second pack now..

I don't know what's going on there...

Which tech should unlock it? I'm willing to try every settings, but it would help to know where to start

In bob's mods with burner phase on... Lab
with burner mode off... nothing, you should just be able to research it, it's a starting entry tech.

I started a new map, with the same settings. Now I can research the transport science pack, like it should be. It is being infected/touched by Angel's Industries, so my guess is, that something weird happened after turning of burner mode and something isn't or hase to be migrated somehow..

For now, I gonna start over on this new map and hope I can get further this time .

[bobingabout]

Enemies 0.18.4:
Increased regular Alien artifact drop rate from Elemental(The ones added by this mod) biters/spitters with all coloured artifacts turned on. (and other minor loot change tweaks)
Added a few missing lines to enemies code from base game.

Revamp 0.18.4:
Removed prerequisites for accumulators and solar energy from Space Science technology when related items are removed from the satelite recipe
Balance: Changed RTG to cost only 1 Plutonium instead of 10.
Balance: Changed satellite Recipe to cost 10 RTGs instead of 20.
Added missing "Electrolysis 2" prerequisite to Plastics technology.
Added petroleum-gas-sweetening unlock to Sulfur Processing too (Just in case you end up with sulfur processing and oil processing before plastics, and want to actually split the sour gas to get the Hydrogen Sulfide.)
Added brine-electrolysis recipe that takes Brine and gives same results as Salt-water-electrolysis (just an alternate recipe, but slightly faster)

[embermctillhawk]

Do you know where the Thorium Fuel Cell has the 500% pollution penalty specified? I can't seem to find it. I'm looking at making my own variant of polluting nuclear reactors, and I want it to play nicely, but, that means I have to find when and where that happens.

Or if that's not an intended feature of Bob's Mods then I guess I'll go sort out which mod is somehow doing that.

[bobingabout]

Do you know where the Thorium Fuel Cell has the 500% pollution penalty specified? I can't seem to find it. I'm looking at making my own variant of polluting nuclear reactors, and I want it to play nicely, but, that means I have to find when and where that happens.

Or if that's not an intended feature of Bob's Mods then I guess I'll go sort out which mod is somehow doing that.

Since reactors by default do not produce pollution, I did NOT include any pollution multipliers on my fuel cells.

If a thorium fuel cell has a 500% pollution multiplier, it's not my mods doing it.

I can tell you however that you need to search for the tag named "fuel_emissions_multiplier"
On fluids and recipes, it is only "emissions_multiplier"

[bobingabout]

Minor update for a minor issue:
Inserters 0.18.2:
Fixed issue where hand overrides wouldn't be applied to the placed inserter if it was your last inserter (Hand became empty by placing it)

[Well]

Guys, only I have such a mistake?

[trionicb]

I've also got the same error, there's also a script-only error with other mods. I'm guessing this caused by a recent update to the game.

[bobingabout]

I'm not familier with this issue, and the screenshot doesn't tell me anything useful (Well, it does tell me there's an issue with a custom input, but doesn't tell me what the issue is)

It's actually an easy fix