As I said I was just assuming that to be the case, so I was curious as to why it would unload in 1.3 seconds instead of 1.45 (derived from 23 items per second times 12).
I did the equivalent test to what I did with the fluid wagon and got 79 ticks (1.317 sec), so I guess it's more than 23 items per second or I'm forgetting to count the initial swing properly.
Edit: That's what is going on I'm sure, counting the first swing as being double throughput (roughly, don't really know how to do it exact) I'm getting just over 1.3 sec
Anyone use barrels?
-
blazespinnaker
- Filter Inserter
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:45 pm
- Contact:
-
blazespinnaker
- Filter Inserter
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:45 pm
- Contact:
Re: Anyone use barrels?
I slowed the game down to 0.1 and ran live split. I see 2 seconds / 5 swings. I have 1+11 stack size.
I drop power pole down and start counting.
The fluid attachment will add some time for sure if that's what you're subtracting.
Fluid attachment is practically 1/2 the time for fluid unload. Looks like it takes about 2 seconds as well with fluid unload (including attachment). That test I did with a standard fluid wagon getting refilled.
Let me know if you see the same thing and I'll update the wiki. EDIT, actually the wiki says 1.8s. That looks pretty close to what I got for fluid. What trick are you using to decrease that?
I drop power pole down and start counting.
The fluid attachment will add some time for sure if that's what you're subtracting.
Fluid attachment is practically 1/2 the time for fluid unload. Looks like it takes about 2 seconds as well with fluid unload (including attachment). That test I did with a standard fluid wagon getting refilled.
Let me know if you see the same thing and I'll update the wiki. EDIT, actually the wiki says 1.8s. That looks pretty close to what I got for fluid. What trick are you using to decrease that?
OptimaUPS Mod, pm for info.
Re: Anyone use barrels?
I've used a circuit counter to count how many ticks the train was at the unload station (train was setup to go to the unloading station until empty then proceed to the dummy station afterwards).
The unloading stations were for fluids 3 pumps connected empty tanks and for barrels 6 stack inserters on each side unloading into a chest.
I've used fluid trains set to unload until empty or when 2 sec has passed, they were able to unload full trains within the 2 seconds and so were the barrel trains using the same setup. So <2 sec times for both make sense.
Re: Anyone use barrels?
I made a service train, which make deliveries to support defence wall. I wanted smallest train possible, so instead of whole tank wagon dedicated to light oil for flamers, I make barels and fill only part of the wagon. Which means more various spare parts can fit in.
Result is quite satisfying. When outpost receive deliveries, refill repair tools, walls, laser turrets, also full barrels of oil and send empty back.
Re: Anyone use barrels?
Ah that explains why I got lower numbers, I didn't include attachment delay on my test. Opps.
Initially the stack inserters have their hands over the rails. Once the train arrives the first pickup is instant. From there the 12 inserters execute 3 full swings. At the end of the third swing 4 stack inserters will pick up the last four stacks of barrels and the cargo wagon will be empty (ie. train can leave the train stop). Note that stack inserters can at maximum pickup a full item stack, since barrels only stack up to 10 items then stack inserters are limited to picking up 10 barrels at a time.
The total time from full to empty is just the time it takes to 3 full swings. Each swing takes 26 ticks for a total of 78 ticks. The last pickup takes 1 tick so 79 ticks. Divide number of ticks by 60 to get 1.3167 seconds.
Re: Anyone use barrels?
Yeah, I more or less figured it out after I tested it in game. I hadn't thought of one of the swings not being a full 360. Sadly no magic fluid loading setup I guess 
Without having run the numbers it seems like they've been balanced after station throughput, I'd expect it to be close to equal (fluids being slightly slower at the station, but using less time going in and out of stations because of fewer trains needed for the same throughput).
Without having run the numbers it seems like they've been balanced after station throughput, I'd expect it to be close to equal (fluids being slightly slower at the station, but using less time going in and out of stations because of fewer trains needed for the same throughput).Re: Anyone use barrels?
Measuring the time the train is at the stop, the maximum per-wagon fluid unload/load rate with barrels (12 stack inserters to/from chests) is 20k/79 ticks = ~15.2k/s, and with pumps (3 pumps to/from tanks) is 25k/106 ticks = ~14.2k/s. So barrels unload ~7.3% faster but require 25% more trains.Kahnugo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:56 am Without having run the numbers it seems like they've been balanced after station throughput, I'd expect it to be close to equal (fluids being slightly slower at the station, but using less time going in and out of stations because of fewer trains needed for the same throughput).
I didn't investigate thoroughly but given a 1-1 nuclear fuel-powered train takes about 50 ticks to clear a one wagon-length block accelerating from rest, I think they end up pretty comparable in the (fairly unrealistic) best possible case but in practice the "dead time" of trains approaching/leaving a stop - even with per-wagon signals to minimise it - will mean lower throughput with barrels.
Also, with barrels, you need to load/unload the empty ones; you could use extra stops and trains to support this, or simultaneously load and unload wagons but at half the rate.
Re: Anyone use barrels?
I love barrels!
Im lazy and have a bot base and can't be bothered running pipe everywhere.
Im lazy and have a bot base and can't be bothered running pipe everywhere.
-
blazespinnaker
- Filter Inserter
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:45 pm
- Contact:
Re: Anyone use barrels?
Yah, for sure. Very useful for temporary stop gap builds too.
OptimaUPS Mod, pm for info.
-
Fractaliste
- Inserter
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:20 am
- Contact:
Re: Anyone use barrels?
I mostly use barrels to carry inflammeable liquid to fireflam turrets. Because I only use these turrets on rarely hot bittered-attacked point who need some reinforcment.
Re: Anyone use barrels?
I am currently playing a game with Angels and Bobs. Additionally i use https://mods.factorio.com/mod/crafting_combinator
So i switch Recipes very often.
The problem with switch recipes with assemblers that output different styles of fluids is, that cleaning the pipe network with pumps is not reliable. Even further with the "non fluid mixing" limitations introduced in the past it is even harder to keep multiple fluids in a pipe network.
So the best way to handle this problem for me was:
Don't use pipes! add a barreling assembler directly to the factory that produces the fluid. This way i change the recipe of the primary assembler and change the barreling recipe of the barreling assembler at once. This way the fluid mixing is no problem anymore because the fluids are only in the assemblers where i can switch the input/output accordingly.
In fact i would be happier if there would be a combinator possibility to clean up a pipe and another entity to keep pipe networks seperated but connectable by circuit. This way i could change the "bus-pipe" to the fluid i want to transfer in a clean way.
So i switch Recipes very often.
The problem with switch recipes with assemblers that output different styles of fluids is, that cleaning the pipe network with pumps is not reliable. Even further with the "non fluid mixing" limitations introduced in the past it is even harder to keep multiple fluids in a pipe network.
So the best way to handle this problem for me was:
Don't use pipes! add a barreling assembler directly to the factory that produces the fluid. This way i change the recipe of the primary assembler and change the barreling recipe of the barreling assembler at once. This way the fluid mixing is no problem anymore because the fluids are only in the assemblers where i can switch the input/output accordingly.
In fact i would be happier if there would be a combinator possibility to clean up a pipe and another entity to keep pipe networks seperated but connectable by circuit. This way i could change the "bus-pipe" to the fluid i want to transfer in a clean way.
Re: Anyone use barrels?
made test setup in editor mode:
- fluid unload barrels and pumps.png (2.79 MiB) Viewed 7460 times
Re: Anyone use barrels?
I use barrels for light oil to be flown into remote walls for the flamethrowers.
I try to have a factory to make barrels and have the inserter stop when it reaches a certain limit, but I end up with far more barrels then what there should be. Why is that, are the barrels not counted when in flight?
I try to have a factory to make barrels and have the inserter stop when it reaches a certain limit, but I end up with far more barrels then what there should be. Why is that, are the barrels not counted when in flight?
-
JimBarracus
- Filter Inserter
- Posts: 365
- Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:14 am
- Contact:
Re: Anyone use barrels?
I use them for uranium mining.
filter for my waggons:
4 slots for sulfuric acid barrels
4 slots for empty barrels
rest for uranium ore
the ratio is off after researching several stages of mining productivity. I never bothered to calculate when 3 stacks or less barrels are enough to fill a wagon with uranium ore.
Re: Anyone use barrels?
The instant a item is scheduled for pickup by robot it is already removed from the logistic network item counts. You'll need a different method of controlling barrel counts (ie. circuit network).nr2117 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:00 pm I use barrels for light oil to be flown into remote walls for the flamethrowers.
I try to have a factory to make barrels and have the inserter stop when it reaches a certain limit, but I end up with far more barrels then what there should be. Why is that, are the barrels not counted when in flight?
Re: Anyone use barrels?
Not necessarily. You can output new barrels to a passive provider, if count is lower x in logi network. If a fillled barrels gets emptied, put the empty barrel into an active provider. That way you get at least x empty barrels, but not infinite more, bc used empty barrels have higher prio. X can be pretty low if you dont need much throughput.Yoyobuae wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:04 amThe instant a item is scheduled for pickup by robot it is already removed from the logistic network item counts. You'll need a different method of controlling barrel counts (ie. circuit network).nr2117 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:00 pm I use barrels for light oil to be flown into remote walls for the flamethrowers.
I try to have a factory to make barrels and have the inserter stop when it reaches a certain limit, but I end up with far more barrels then what there should be. Why is that, are the barrels not counted when in flight?
Or you can combine it with a storage chest with barrel filter.
Re: Anyone use barrels?
That's a really cool use of them actually, I'll probably get to do that in the future instead of just sending a fluid wagon with acid in it.JimBarracus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:04 amI use them for uranium mining.
filter for my waggons:
4 slots for sulfuric acid barrels
4 slots for empty barrels
rest for uranium ore
the ratio is off after researching several stages of mining productivity. I never bothered to calculate when 3 stacks or less barrels are enough to fill a wagon with uranium ore.
Re: Anyone use barrels?
I...I use barrels cause I like barrels <_<
I like seeing them on belts. I like seeing them get processed in the assemblers.
I just like barrels. Would you rather be around barrels IRL or pipelines?
Barrels for me. They're more friendly than pipelines, and less prissy, too.
Oh no the pipeline is leaking now everything is gonna spray out ahhhhhh.
Oh no,a barrel is leaking, it's just one barrel tho, bad, but not awful.
Man, it's cold, oh look an empty barrel, time to make a fire.
A plumber is trying to steal my girl? Throw barrels.
Want to trade oil? Well, it's not measured in pipelines, now, is it?
This game is barrels of fun, not pipelines of fun.
Want to shoot carbide (it's a thing in some European places)? Get a barrel or a milkpail.
Barrel, barrel, barrel, barrel, barrel.
Checkmate pipetheists.
>but what about ingame numbers
-eats glue in front of all of you while watching barrels spin around-
Mhhh...horses....
I like seeing them on belts. I like seeing them get processed in the assemblers.
I just like barrels. Would you rather be around barrels IRL or pipelines?
Barrels for me. They're more friendly than pipelines, and less prissy, too.
Oh no the pipeline is leaking now everything is gonna spray out ahhhhhh.
Oh no,a barrel is leaking, it's just one barrel tho, bad, but not awful.
Man, it's cold, oh look an empty barrel, time to make a fire.
A plumber is trying to steal my girl? Throw barrels.
Want to trade oil? Well, it's not measured in pipelines, now, is it?
This game is barrels of fun, not pipelines of fun.
Want to shoot carbide (it's a thing in some European places)? Get a barrel or a milkpail.
Barrel, barrel, barrel, barrel, barrel.
Checkmate pipetheists.
>but what about ingame numbers
-eats glue in front of all of you while watching barrels spin around-
Mhhh...horses....
-
SirSmuggler
- Long Handed Inserter
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:55 pm
- Contact:
Re: Anyone use barrels?
Where is the like button when you realy need it 