Friday Facts #387 - Swimming in lava

[Skellitor301]

So with the larger digging radius of the miners, that'll leave a bit of dead area between two different ore types for those that don't like mixed ore belts. Could there be an addition of ore filtering for the higher-tier miners as a QoL addon? It'd be a bit jarring to have so much open space filled with resources between miners of two different mines when the ore patches are touching. I know filtering on belts is a thing but that can easily cause clogging issues if one resource isn't used as much as the other, like if my iron mine is touching a stone mine, and I don't use stone as much as iron I'd rather not have my iron mine shut down cause stone is backed up. With the larger radius I can see this becoming a bigger issue, so solving it at the miner itself would circumvent a lot of headache and issues.

[Vegemeister]

I like the new machines! But I notice the ear ratio is wrong on the new mining drill. When moving left/right, the little gears spin way more than they should for the amount of motion and the spacing/size of the teeth. You’d be grinding off gear teeth if they spin that fast.

I missed that, but something else stood out as an obvious improvement to the big drill's animation: make it go down-drill-move-up instead of down-drill-up-move. The 3D model of the drill head clearly shows it's designed for the side to be the cutting face, not the tip. That would also make sense with the higher mining speed -- it's how bucket wheel excavactors work.

[TheKingOfFailure]

If you have to build multiple bases then it's important to reduce points of repetition between planets so that nothing feels stale. Over time we have consistently tried to simplify and cut excessive things. If something is repetitive but can't be cut, then we can add a new twist or a new shortcut instead. This has been the case since Earendel's initial version and every iteration since, so now we can get through all the planets while keeping the gameplay fresh

I now wonder if we will get some terrain structures on other planets that make obtaining resources truly something alien. On Nauvis we got "resource is in ground, mine the ground" and on Vulcanus "resource is on lava, extract and smelt from the lava". 3 planets to go, and that makes chances of getting at least another mechanic to get raw materials very likeky. But WHAT coud it be? I picture a great boulder of pure copper being cut to chunks with laser turrets and getting picked up by carrier drones, or a scheduled ship that sails from port on an ocean world and detonates depth charges on the sea floor to mine salt deposits, then grabbing those by water-turbines that separate the water-resource mix nearby and filtrates what you want from all the sludge.
Unlimited creative potential, really. Make it weird, make it complex, but make it INDUSTRIAL. Im so happy with these FFFs

TRULY alien would be a planet covered in ruined futuristic cities. you’d have to “mine” the rubble of fallen skyscrapers and recycle and recover a sensitive element like lithium that you can’t extract from the ground yourself.

The planet could even be entirely paved in concrete and stone, with no plant life at all…

[TBC_x]

Will the map generation include special checks to ensure that anything minable that spawns near lava is accessible by the new mining drills?

In current Factorio, if you get a small island with some ore on it that a drill won't fit on, you can just use some landfill to expand it enough to fit the drill and a belt to get the results out. However, you said that lava can't be landfilled, which means that if ore spawns near it, there's a chance it'll end up on a small island or on a narrow bridge that the drills won't be able to access, which will infuriate many players.

So, what's the solution?

The way I see it, you'd need to include some sort of buffer zone around lava which ore can't spawn in (at least half the footprint of the biggest mining drill), or if lava goes down late in map generation, which would remove already-placed ore. Maybe graphically this buffer zone could be rendered as something akin to a beach, where the lava has already been and washed away any ore that may have spawned nearby.

The planet is generated from single tile that can be flipped and rotated to create multiple variations. The only random input is how these rotations and flips will be arranged next to each other. If I understood the last FFF correctly there will be no small island with ore unless the devs decided there will be such an island (unless the ore generation is a part of different step).

[vanatteveldt]

If an intermediate is only ever used for one thing then perhaps it should be more useful or be removed

You have no idea how much of a relief it is to read these words. This was my single biggest frustration when trying to play Space Exploration (unique single-use buildings that make unique single-use items for science), and the thing that put me off continuing my playthrough of it.

It's funny because I wrote that line. SE will get the same treatment eventually.

Ha! I just finished K2SE so my brain is probably not wired correctly anymore, but my second thought on seeing the foundry was that it seemed to contain multiple processes (grinding, smelting, casting) and it was a shame that it is all reduced to one machine now. I have to say in K2SE I really liked the mini-game of building nice builds to convert ore into ingots/rods/blocks for the various resources.

But I do completely see how that is not the direction Wube wanted to go for the new DLC, and I'm sure you/they have a better understanding of the average factorio player, and I can completely see K2SE-style complexity (and to be honest, sometimes repetitiveness) is probably not a winner.

I'm very curious what the modders will do with the new mechanics and buildings. I can totally see a (K2)SE revamp that preserves the original feel but just works better; but it would also be interesting to just see what new mods can be built to enhance or expand the DLC experience...

[Serenity]

I'm very curious what the modders will do with the new mechanics and buildings

I'd like more mods that add a little bit of complexity here and there. Instead of a completely overhaul or total conversion, just add a step or two at some points. And make it the same style as vanilla.

[computeraddict]

The planet is generated from single tile that can be flipped and rotated to create multiple variations. The only random input is how these rotations and flips will be arranged next to each other. If I understood the last FFF correctly there will be no small island with ore unless the devs decided there will be such an island (unless the ore generation is a part of different step).

AFAIK, this is wildly incorrect. Factorio's map generator for terrain tiles is granular down to the individual 1x1 tile scale, of which there are far more than one.

Also AFAIK, the only interaction between the terrain tile generation and the ore generation is to exclude ore from certain types of tiles like water and void. And to keep oil and uranium out of the starting zone.

[Vegemeister]

The planet is generated from single tile that can be flipped and rotated to create multiple variations. The only random input is how these rotations and flips will be arranged next to each other. If I understood the last FFF correctly there will be no small island with ore unless the devs decided there will be such an island (unless the ore generation is a part of different step).

Only the starting area.

[bourne327]

So maybe this is just the perfectionist in me, but I have something to point out on the Big Mining Drill.

When it is facing sideways, the rack gears that the pinions crawl on are standard racks. When the drill is facing upward, the rack and pinions are suddenly changed to a helical lead screw and pinion which (while not strictly impossible) is never seen in industry and doesn't make sense for this application anyway.

Whether you choose to go the lead screw route or the rack and pinion route, I'm sure it will be fantastic, but please make sure you choose one or the other and keep continuity through entity rotation.

I have read every Friday fun fact since 0.12. You guys are everything we, the players and fans, want you to be.

Thank you guys for all you do to make this the best game ever made!

[XelSelenius]

Are there Plans for a Thermal Power Plant for Vulcanus? Its a great and clean way to get energy. No uranium means only Coal. Solar is illogical as the atmosphere would be blocked by carbon.

I think it would be a great addition.

[AileTheAlien]

I like the update overall, but don't like how the Big Mining Drill moves. IMO, seems like something with bigger rotating teeth should do one big row of resources all at once, even if it moves more quickly when resetting to the other side. It also seems weird that the thing drills in a small spot, but reaches mysteriously many more tiles past its footprint / gantry. Like, normal drills do this too but I could hand-wave it more easily since it was only one extra row on each edge, *and* it's a much smaller structure that you build by the dozen for each patch and can't look at too closely. For the big drill, I'd have made it with a big X/Y gantry like a 3D printer (but in reverse!), with the size of the gantry equal to the extraction zone. It'd make the logistics a bit annoying, but since it's so much better than normal drills I could live with it. (Or give it one extra tile reach past its borders, like normal electric drills, so it doesn't leave anything behind when you tile a resource patch with them.)

[Freddy404]

When the drill is facing upward, the rack and pinions are suddenly changed to a helical lead screw and pinion which (while not strictly impossible) is never seen in industry and doesn't make sense for this application anyway.

Isn't the helical-ness just the perspective going a bit wonky? The racks seem to be angled, such that for a side-facing drill, we're looking at one rack straight on, and at one straight from the side. While for a upward-facing drill, we're aligned with their long axis, while the angle of the rack interacts with the angle of our view in a unintuitive way.

[jodokus31]

I wonder, how power is generated on Vulcanus.
Solar will work, of course.
Steampower needs lots of water. Nuclear even more.
When you have to process sulfuric acid first, it can be a quite risky endeavour.

[mmmPI]

Steampower needs lots of water. Nuclear even more.

I disagree !

I share your questionning though, but the steam used for nuclear being "hotter" it contain more energy per unit, thus requiring less water for the same amount of electricity so it would be the better option in case of limited water.

It may be that calcite + sulfuric acid yield water, but then maybe water is too "rare" to waste on energy, and one is supposed to use solar, since it's a "hotter" planet because it's closer to the sun ? The initial power on a planet without water has to be solar i think unless there are still some undisclosed technologies.

[FuryoftheStars]

Steampower needs lots of water. Nuclear even more.

I disagree !

I share your questionning though, but the steam used for nuclear being "hotter" it contain more energy per unit, thus requiring less water for the same amount of electricity so it would be the better option in case of limited water.

It may be that calcite + sulfuric acid yield water, but then maybe water is too "rare" to waste on energy, and one is supposed to use solar, since it's a "hotter" planet because it's closer to the sun ? The initial power on a planet without water has to be solar i think unless there are still some undisclosed technologies.

It might also yield water that is > 15°C, decreasing the energy requirement to make into steam... though I realize that won't really affect how much of the water gets used. Just thought that might be interesting to think about. In fact... it could even result in steam. I mean, sulfuric acid's boiling point is over 3x that of water....

[jodokus31]

Steampower needs lots of water. Nuclear even more.

I disagree !

I share your questionning though, but the steam used for nuclear being "hotter" it contain more energy per unit, thus requiring less water for the same amount of electricity so it would be the better option in case of limited water.

It may be that calcite + sulfuric acid yield water, but then maybe water is too "rare" to waste on energy, and one is supposed to use solar, since it's a "hotter" planet because it's closer to the sun ? The initial power on a planet without water has to be solar i think unless there are still some undisclosed technologies.

Yes, of course.

[Inscius]

In fact... it could even result in steam. I mean, sulfuric acid's boiling point is over 3x that of water....

According to a responsein the reddit thread, that's exactly how it works.

The sulfuric acid neutralization results in 500degree steam first, only after that you can do a second step of steam condensation into water

[MRIYA]

I wonder how to kickstart you factory there as a whole, are the rocks there also containing copper to get the offshore pump build? Or do you have to bring enough material with you? If so how do you get it down without the ground station? Guess only time will tell.

How wonderful would it be to start the game ground-up from any planets

[mmmPI]

The sulfuric acid neutralization results in 500degree steam first, only after that you can do a second step of steam condensation into water

Thanks for pointing out some undisclosed technologies !

It leads me to think that water will maybe be used for crafting/transformation as otherwise that second step wouldn't be of any use as it could just be consumed by turbines directly. The reason behind getting liquid water may be because the condensation into water happens in a turbine-like entity that transform the hot steam into cold water + electricity.

It would yield a challenge where neutralization is necessary to get some water for a then a closed-loop generating electricity that one has to prevent overfilling from water by either stopping the neutralization, or using the excess steam in regular-non-condensating turbines/steam engines to void it ?

Curious to see if this is hinting at some temperature or fluid rework, or something that interact with those pressure and gravity constant from planets.

[Inscius]

Thanks for pointing out some undisclosed technologies !

It leads me to think that water will maybe be used for crafting/transformation as otherwise that second step wouldn't be of any use as it could just be consumed by turbines directly. The reason behind getting liquid water may be because the condensation into water happens in a turbine-like entity that transform the hot steam into cold water + electricity.

It would yield a challenge where neutralization is necessary to get some water for a then a closed-loop generating electricity that one has to prevent overfilling from water by either stopping the neutralization, or using the excess steam in regular-non-condensating turbines/steam engines to void it ?

Curious to see if this is hinting at some temperature or fluid rework, or something that interact with those pressure and gravity constant from planets.

That second step is needed to obtain water for oil cracking, unless there are some unannounced changes to that. Hopefully they do something with water recycling like what you describe too though.