Friday Facts #399 - Trash to Treasure

[FuryoftheStars]

And the lightning also inspires some other interesting gameplay variations.
It could be necessary to "bake" some resources by lightning, so you could produce these resources only at night, and you need to expand your base to catch lightning not only for power, but also for processing.

What reason would there be, though, to require the actual lightning vs an artificial lightning generator?

[Qon]

gap that's larger than (basic quality) big electric poles

This remark scares me a lot. If the gap is small enough to be crossed with better quality electric poles, then people will do exactly that. This is no longer about modules being """optional""" improvements to your factory, now it entirely changes how you build on the planet, since you can basically ignore the "isolated islands" gimmick, and just join the islands together. You don't even need that many upgraded poles, 1-2 per moat connection.

Wrong. You can just landfill to place common wooden poles to connect islands if you prefer that.
Quality being useful isn't the same as being mandatory.

[Saphira123456]

Yeah, full agreement (with the exception of "Devoid of risk". That lightning seems like a big one.) Other planets are great and all, but honestly? From my perspective - I'm not a programmer or game designer, so outside looking in - it seems like they could totally stick ALLLL this stuff on Nauvis for much less time, energy and materials. They could probably charge us less for it too, when it comes out.

The mechanics seem to be fairly identical and pretty repetitive as well with the same one or two loops over and over again with different materials (lava, scrap and oil sludge), and some of the new mechanics are entirely unnecessary. Some of them are quite nice though, such as the ability to void items into the environment or through some type of machine, which would have been great in the base game.

Almost all these different mechanics could easily find a home on Nauvis. (Except for the space platform, though I can find use-cases for a space station too.)

From the outside looking in, the things they've said so far don't really necessitate new planets, just new biomes. In fact, it seems like Vulcanus and Fulgora can easily be eliminated in their entirety without removing the new mechanics or the new content.

But if it was just new biome and not new planet you could just keep one base and add train tracks or belts, or just walk to every ressources, you would only keep one source of energy like solar pannel would work work everywhere at the same time, and you would not have to adapt to the different environment, because you just use the electricity from the next door biome with electric wire, but obvisouly you can't do that up to other planets.

Also the different planets have different ressources present in them, if it was just different biome it would just be a matter of finding 2 biome next to each other and building in the middle to have the ressourcess of 2 planets with 0 challenge. I don't think there will be lava on Nauvis, but that is only thanks to the different planets, existing otherwise it would be as easy as on Vulcanus to void item in lava, whereas now it make no sense to ship things to Vulcanus to drop it on lava because you can just drop it to space.

There was a concept art of a new biter revealed too, if it was just a different biome how would it work ? the ennemy should stop at the border of their biome ? that would be lame, and if not you would have some fiery enemy and some icy enemy at the same time ? that would feel wrong too. New planets allow new ennemies to stick in their "biome" in a way that make more sense for a video game i think.

I'm glad the expansion show a lot of things, and that it's not just a cheap half-empty DLC.

If it were all new biomes but a bigger, more expansive Nauvis, I know I would play the exact same way I do right now. I have one central starter base which contains my initial startup factory, power plant, and red + green science, plus my labs for the entire save. But that's not all I have.

WAY over in the next area I have an independent power grid, getting coal from a nearby mine or even from the main starter base by rail. Over by the oil, I have ANOTHER independent power grid. (And I always tend to use steam plus solar, because nuclear takes too long to make a single unit of 238. And that's something which isn't going to change when this DLC comes out - with the exception of Fulgora since they literally give you the electricity you need for free.)

Additionally, I never walk to new resources. I always have a car for scouting. The only time I walk is when I'm placing power poles or rail lines, or actively constructing a factory.

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Weather is a thing that can be adapted to all planets. Lightning and environmental changes don't have to be exclusive to Fulgora. There's always a need to improve and grow, so adding the new tracks and upgrading trains to use the new belts would be something I do.

Plus, having these things on Nauvis instead of other planets would increase the number of things to do in this game in vanilla.

For example, there is definitely something to be said about running a railroad line out to a scrap processing facility to turn excess resources back into their source materials, or not needing a mod to void things.

I currently use the Flare Stack mod and the Recycling Factory mod to deal with this, recycling and/or voiding any items whenever and wherever I so choose. So why in the universe do I desire to go to another planet to void my items when I can just plop down a flare? Having the lava and other things on the planet would eliminate the need for these mods and allow me to do things vanilla, giving me a reason to make things less trivial and forcing me to take additional actions, without making it so that I need to do something like build up an excruciatingly-slow-to-build rocket in order to do something.

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And as for your thing about enemies, it's quite common to have one enemy either fighting their opposite type (have the fire biters and the ice biters hate one another more than they hate you) or have them teaming up to fight you. It makes perfect sense.

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The game as it is, makes it trivial to do just about everything. There have been a few frustrations about having room to put everything, but in general it's pretty trivial. There's no difficulty in this game, and even when this new DLC comes out, that will not change.

And the new planets don't really present any challenge either - except for the absolute hassle of having to start over from square one. The only challenge that's ever present in this game is the challenge to fight off boredom when you're waiting on science packs to be made and science to be done. I never even have to monitor things - once I build my factory, I just let it sit and chug. For the science packs beyond green, I do so overnight.

You build up enough to start producing green science, then the game turns into "wait 24+ hours, then spend two hours building, then wait 24+ hours again."

The entire DLC can be compressed and moved into Nauvis. There was no need to use other planets, as once you get your various bases set up, then the DLC - hell, the entire base game - is "fighting off boredom simulator 2024". Once you get your bases set up, there's literally nothing to do except wait. You have to start new research from time to time, sure - but that's literally all you're required to do. And you can let your science packs build up overnight.

This is a great game for the office, when you are hard at work and you can leave Factorio running in the background.

You never even have to go past the main menu and start a new game, to experience all the game has to offer. The simulations in the main menu are all you need.

All the excitement of Factorio, and indeed, everything that requires you to actually do anything, is packed into tiny little two-hour-or-less chunks. All the rest of the time is spent waiting. It's like watching an extremely boring movie where only part of your screen ever moves and it makes the same move over and over and over and over again.

Factorio is an idle game. Lot of strategy in the beginning, then long expanses of nothing but waiting. Another little bit of strategy, a lot more waiting. The exciting bits are few and far between.

Factorio is great for running in the background or overnight, but make sure you're otherwise occupied, because this factory makes boredom. Or brain rot. Or both.

[mcmase]

If it were all new biomes but a bigger, more expansive Nauvis, I know I would play the exact same way I do right now...

Replying to you because this is the most recent comment, but also to others.

I read the post and I don't think most players play this way, at least not myself or anyone else I know.

Different planets are absolutely the way to go, and I loved this week's post about how each planet feels unique. Others have already defended that position so I won't belabor the point, but having everything on one planet just feels too easy, I very much like the concept of exploring the galaxy and learning new things from new environments.

I also saw a post on the first page of replies about not having landfill or defenses or whatnot, and it feels like some people skim the post and then comment about its shortcomings... all of which were addressed in the post... I truly get the feeling that the developers play their game a LOT and truly consider all sorts of things that haven't even entered our minds. Sure, there may be parts of the game that don't turn out exactly as I would've done it, and most likely everyone will find aspects that they like more or like less. For me, so far it is Quality and the Foundry that really make me want to get my hands on the expansion.

Biggest question is still whether these new planets are also coming with new enemies... The one thing that will make this expansion worth $100 to being worth $1000 for me (figuratively speaking) will be how well it expands on combat, which is sorely under-served in the base game. I know we are getting SOMETHING, but I'd be sad if we were limited to only one planet with enemies (presumably the third one since we've heard nothing about it yet). I'd hope defenses were also something you'd unlock as you go and enemies might even have new evolve levels so that new defenses would be necessary (thinking electric defenses from Fulgora, improved fire defenses from Vulcanis). If all four planets each had their own defensive challenges... well, that would be something exceptional.

[Saphira123456]

If it were all new biomes but a bigger, more expansive Nauvis, I know I would play the exact same way I do right now...

Replying to you because this is the most recent comment, but also to others.

I read the post and I don't think most players play this way, at least not myself or anyone else I know.

Different planets are absolutely the way to go, and I loved this week's post about how each planet feels unique. Others have already defended that position so I won't belabor the point, but having everything on one planet just feels too easy, I very much like the concept of exploring the galaxy and learning new things from new environments.

Currently, it's not only too easy, it's too boring. Like I said, once you have up to green science set up, it becomes an idle game. Short bursts of activity, then massive lengths time waiting for things to be built. Real-time watching-paint-dry simulator 2024.

This is why I don't use robots, why I don't use the circuit network to automate things, because if I did that then I'd have even less to do. You spend so much time just waiting around for stuff to be made and science packs to produce, with legitimately not enough action or things requiring your presence to bother remaining focused on the game. Thank goodness it continues to run when you've alt-tabbed out.

I too very much like the concept of exploring the galaxy and learning new things from new environments, but when you spend so much time idling in the base game that it would literally be faster to craft complex components and entire science packs by hand from the raw resources, you start to wonder why you would ever bother going to another planet when you're not going to be able to do so in a reasonable time frame.

There's only so much paint drying you can watch before you change the channel... or the game.

[gGeorg]

Can you pls add a battery wagon to transport energy by train

It is already there, it is called Fluid wagon
https://wiki.factorio.com/Fluid_wagon

Fill up train by steam, then attach turbine at remote station.
https://wiki.factorio.com/Steam_turbine

But on the new planet you cant do that you would need a way to recycle the water to turne it to steam again also you would need electric boilers

Take current steam boiler, put an ice-cube in by the inserter, then add solid fuel. Puff - you get steam.

[mmmPI]

What reason would there be, though, to require the actual lightning vs an artificial lightning generator?

Enabling time travel on car is a documented use case. source : Chat GTP

If it were all new biomes but a bigger, more expansive Nauvis, I know I would play the exact same way I do right now.

It seem the only things on which we agree are that since it's whole new planets that are added and not just new biomes, it means the expansion will bring new gameplay. Since the expansion will offer not just trains but also spaceplatforms, Which is interesting to me also because as you say when you play a lot a game you may get bored and want some new things.

Additionally, I never walk to new resources. I always have a car for scouting. The only time I walk is when I'm placing power poles or rail lines, or actively constructing a factory.

When i play factorio i'm always "ACTIVELY CONSTRUCTING A FACTORY". That's why i play the game, there is nothing that is waiting or idle game for me. That's my playstyle. So i share almost none of your experience of it. I just increase the production or clean up depleted mining drills, or expand the defense perimeter, or try to improve some build that i made a temporary or unsatisfying version of earlier, look up next receipes and plan the area so i have a hard time to understand the waiting game, it would make the game boring if it was forced upon me to wait for some things and i feel nothing forces me to play factorio passively so i don't.

Biggest question is still whether these new planets are also coming with new enemies...
If all four planets each had their own defensive challenges... well, that would be something exceptional.

I more often than not play peaceful, but i think i'm in the minority there, and i have some (growing) expectations about new combats things the more i see of the scope of the additions. I feel like those are amongst the most anticipated things and devs keep them for the last reveals before the release because it would be difficult for players to contain their excitement otherwise but maybe it's just me x)

[Saphira123456]

If it were all new biomes but a bigger, more expansive Nauvis, I know I would play the exact same way I do right now.

It seem the only things on which we agree are that since it's whole new planets that are added and not just new biomes, it means the expansion will bring new gameplay. Since the expansion will offer not just trains but also spaceplatforms, Which is interesting to me also because as you say when you play a lot a game you may get bored and want some new things.

Except the new gameplay is just a couple new loops. Once you have them decently set up it's back to the idle game like always. So not really anything new as far as gameplay is concerned, just the same old same old, and because of how they've set things up, you can completely avoid the parts of the gameplay that actually involve your player character, such as setting up a starter base. Such things would be much better if they'd simply stuck the new biomes on Nauvis and eliminated the whole space thing entirely.

Additionally, I never walk to new resources. I always have a car for scouting. The only time I walk is when I'm placing power poles or rail lines, or actively constructing a factory.

When i play factorio i'm always "ACTIVELY CONSTRUCTING A FACTORY". That's why i play the game, there is nothing that is waiting or idle game for me. That's my playstyle. So i share almost none of your experience of it. I just increase the production or clean up depleted mining drills, or expand the defense perimeter, or try to improve some build that i made a temporary or unsatisfying version of earlier, look up next receipes and plan the area so i have a hard time to understand the waiting game, it would make the game boring if it was forced upon me to wait for some things and i feel nothing forces me to play factorio passively so i don't.

Let me help you understand: The waiting part is mainly waiting for components to get built and science packs to get crafted. Things in Factorio, especially green science packs and up, build so god-damn slowly and take so many components - which themselves take other components, which themselves take even more components - that at the point you're making green science, it's actually faster to hand-craft every component you can, for every science pack. The game is 90% passive, 10% active.

You're right about it making the game boring if you're forced to wait for things. That's why I don't play the game that often, and why I don't use certain automation techniques like the circuit network and robots - there's literally no point since that would eliminate my participation even more.

If the entire gameplay is two clicks, choose blueprint and plunk it down, then there's really no need for me to stick around as that would reduce the time I actually need to do things. When I'm building mini-factories by hand, it's a 90 percent waiting, 10% active ratio. If the gameplay is reduced to two clicks, then it becomes a 99.9999% waiting, 0.0001% active ratio.

The game plays itself during 90% of the time spent on it, and during that time the only thing I can do is sit idle, twiddling my thumbs while I wait for the next science pack. I'm already forced to wait 24 hours or more for certain things, why would I want to automate the player out of the game?

[GregoriusT]

Currently, it's not only too easy, it's too boring. Like I said, once you have up to green science set up, it becomes an idle game. Short bursts of activity, then massive lengths time waiting for things to be built. Real-time watching-paint-dry simulator 2024.

Are you talking about the phase where you first get the green science build done and then get stuck for a bit because you cant find any Oil early on, so you start researching everything BUT oil extraction, resulting in a self fulfilling prophecy of stopped progress of sorts?

Either that or you make the same mistake I made in my very first playthrough and only did one or two assemblers per science pack (just how was my first instinct a frikkin unregulated sushi belt...).

A 10-Red, 12-Green Science Build typically suffices early on if you dont want to wait for too long. And all you need for that is one Gear Assembler, one Inserter Assembler and one Yellow Belt Assembler, that is all. I highly doubt Handcrafting Science Packs is faster than the 10+ Assemblers each that Factorio intends you to use.

I myself end up in the Idle Game predicament once I finished my Blue and Military Science Builds, but that is because I always end up with a clusterfuck and am too lazy to rebuild my Science Setup to the point i manually insert purple and yellow science into the labs themselves...

So whenever I am researching the Blue Techs, instead of building the Factory I end up exploring and killing Biters, or get busy with the Defences. (by now that last one I dont even bother with anymore, I just make sure the pollution cloud is clear of Biters)

[mmmPI]

I currently use the Flare Stack mod and the Recycling Factory mod to deal with this, recycling and/or voiding any items whenever and wherever I so choose. So why in the universe do I desire to go to another planet to void my items when I can just plop down a flare?

The game as it is, makes it trivial to do just about everything. There have been a few frustrations about having room to put everything, but in general it's pretty trivial. There's no difficulty in this game, and even when this new DLC comes out, that will not change.

I think you are responsible for using mod removing the challenges and then complaining about the game being trivial. That's only on you.

Let me help you understand: The waiting part is mainly waiting for components to get built and science packs to get crafted.

I don't wait for things to get crafted i told you, i understand you do, you have explained well you playstyle, i told you i share nothing from your experience because i do not play passively. I don't see how making no new planets but instead biome would change this for you.

Edit: what i don't understand , is why you wait instead of making a factory if you think it makes the game boring ?

[aka13]

I politely disagree that you wait in factorio. I think that you have something to do all the time, even at megabase scale, but that is of course my personal opinion.
While I do not have any reservation regarding the planets, there have been cases where different locations on a basebuilder proved less successful, than they could've been, like ONI.
But seeing as how even with the lua limitations different planets were a pretty enjoyable mechanic, I am convinced that with the remote view adjustments it will be very solid gameplay-wise.

[Saphira123456]

Currently, it's not only too easy, it's too boring. Like I said, once you have up to green science set up, it becomes an idle game. Short bursts of activity, then massive lengths time waiting for things to be built. Real-time watching-paint-dry simulator 2024.

Are you talking about the phase where you first get the green science build done and then get stuck for a bit because you cant find any Oil early on, so you start researching everything BUT oil extraction, resulting in a self fulfilling prophecy of stopped progress of sorts?

Either that or you make the same mistake I made in my very first playthrough and only did one or two assemblers per science pack (just how was my first instinct a frikkin unregulated sushi belt...).

A 10-Red, 12-Green Science Build typically suffices early on if you dont want to wait for too long. And all you need for that is one Gear Assembler, one Inserter Assembler and one Yellow Belt Assembler, that is all. I highly doubt Handcrafting Science Packs is faster than the 10+ Assemblers each that Factorio intends you to use.

I myself end up in the Idle Game predicament once I finished my Blue and Military Science Builds, but that is because I always end up with a clusterfuck and am too lazy to rebuild my Science Setup to the point i manually insert purple and yellow science into the labs themselves...

So whenever I am researching the Blue Techs, instead of building the Factory I end up exploring and killing Biters, or get busy with the Defences. (by now that last one I dont even bother with anymore, I just make sure the pollution cloud is clear of Biters)

No, I'm talking about science packs in general. I only tend to use enough to build one of EVERYTHING, per science pack. (Because it's simply a hassle to build more, due to my methods of construction not exactly being neat and clean. They are VERY spaghetti.)



Here's my current setup: For my Red science line, I have ONE assembler making iron gear wheels and ONE assembler making red science packs.

This is separate to my Green science line, where I have ONE assembler making green science packs, ONE assembler making yellow inserters, ONE assembler making yellow belts. And for those yellow belts, I have ONE assembler making iron gear wheels. And for those yellow inserters, I have ONE assembler making copper wire, ONE assembler making iron gear wheels, and ONE assembler making green circuits.

For my BLUE science line, I have ONE assembler making Blue packs. ONE assembler making Red circuits. ONE assembler making Green circuits. ONE chemical plant making plastic, and ONE oil refinery making petroleum gas. I also have ONE assembler making engine units, ONE assembler making iron gear wheels and ONE assembler making iron pipes.

This is separate AGAIN from my PURPLE science line, where I have ONE assembler making red circuits and ONE assembler making production module 1s.

The only things I ever build multiple of, at least for a specific resource, are mining drills and furnaces, though each line has a different drill and furnace feeding it. I also have multiple drills mining coal, and multiple power production buildings (boilers and steam engines) due to NEEDING more in order to keep things running, an absolutely excessive amount in fact.

Plus it's a pure hassle to reproduce each assembly line. With the way my factory sprawls, it'd be impossible.

Why on earth would I build multiple production lines when the materials I do have, are barely enough to keep these lines satisfied? And why on earth does WUBE expect you to feed 10+ assemblers without sufficient resources to feed ONE?

[Saphira123456]

I currently use the Flare Stack mod and the Recycling Factory mod to deal with this, recycling and/or voiding any items whenever and wherever I so choose. So why in the universe do I desire to go to another planet to void my items when I can just plop down a flare?

The game as it is, makes it trivial to do just about everything. There have been a few frustrations about having room to put everything, but in general it's pretty trivial. There's no difficulty in this game, and even when this new DLC comes out, that will not change.

I think you are responsible for using mod removing the challenges and then complaining about the game being trivial. That's only on you.

Let me help you understand: The waiting part is mainly waiting for components to get built and science packs to get crafted.

I don't wait for things to get crafted i told you, i understand you do, you have explained well you playstyle, i told you i share nothing from your experience because i do not play passively. I don't see how making no new planets but instead biome would change this for you.

Edit: what i don't understand , is why you wait instead of making a factory if you think it makes the game boring ?

If I didn't use the mods then it would only be replacing the existing boredom with a new boredom. The inability to void items and instead having to keep crafting storage tanks indefinitely for items like liquids, which otherwise can't be vented and rapidly fill up my storage tanks, which jams things up and stops everything from being made unless you manually flush the networks. That's why the new lava biome and the recycler are exciting - because it means I will no longer require those two mods just to play the base game.

And I do make mini-factories. But after I make the factory, then I have to wait. As I said, it'd be faster NOT to make a factory and craft everything in your inventory.

So it's either be bored my way, or have to do endlessly repetitive tasks which is just as boring. At least the way I do it, the game continues to flow without you needing to check on it from time to time. Either way, the gameplay is the same.

One thing I must thank you for is the one-wire circuit technique you taught me earlier, allowing me to automate the flare stacks I use.

[GregoriusT]

No, I'm talking about science packs in general. I only tend to use enough to build one of EVERYTHING, per science pack. (Because it's simply a hassle to build more, due to my methods of construction not exactly being neat and clean. They are VERY spaghetti.)

Here's my current setup: For my Red science line, I have ONE assembler making iron gear wheels and ONE assembler making red science packs.

This is separate to my Green science line, where I have ONE assembler making green science packs, ONE assembler making yellow inserters, ONE assembler making yellow belts. And for those yellow belts, I have ONE assembler making iron gear wheels. And for those yellow inserters, I have ONE assembler making copper wire, ONE assembler making iron gear wheels, and ONE assembler making green circuits.

For my BLUE science line, I have ONE assembler making Blue packs. ONE assembler making Red circuits. ONE assembler making Green circuits. ONE chemical plant making plastic, and ONE oil refinery making petroleum gas. I also have ONE assembler making engine units, ONE assembler making iron gear wheels and ONE assembler making iron pipes.

This is separate AGAIN from my PURPLE science line, where I have ONE assembler making red circuits and ONE assembler making production module 1s. (Both the red circuit assembler and production module assembler feed off the same green circuit assembler that feeds the blue science line. Also both red circuit assemblers feed off the same plastic line.)

The only thing I ever build multiple of, at least for a specific resource, is mining drills, though each line has a different drill feeding it. I also have multiple drills mining coal, and multiple power production buildings (boilers and steam engines) due to NEEDING more in order to keep things running, an absolutely excessive amount in fact.

Plus it's a pure hassle to reproduce each assembly line. With the way my factory sprawls, it'd be impossible.

Why on earth would I build multiple production lines when the materials I do have, are barely enough to keep these lines satisfied? And why on Earth does WUBE expect you to feed 10+ assemblers without sufficient resources to feed ONE?

So what you are saying is, you are doing a self imposed challenge run where you throw all the production ratios out the window and instead go 1:1:1:1:1:1 all the way? I mean sure it sounds like a neat Idea, but I do not think you can expect anyone to see that as the "normal" way to play the game, lol.

The only two ways I could this type of gameplay emerge naturally, is if you are zoomed in so far that you dont see much on your screen, feeling like everything is cramped and to not build too much overall, Or that you just want to direct insert the everything and go mostly beltless.

[Saphira123456]

No, I'm talking about science packs in general. I only tend to use enough to build one of EVERYTHING, per science pack. (Because it's simply a hassle to build more, due to my methods of construction not exactly being neat and clean. They are VERY spaghetti.)

Here's my current setup: For my Red science line, I have ONE assembler making iron gear wheels and ONE assembler making red science packs.

This is separate to my Green science line, where I have ONE assembler making green science packs, ONE assembler making yellow inserters, ONE assembler making yellow belts. And for those yellow belts, I have ONE assembler making iron gear wheels. And for those yellow inserters, I have ONE assembler making copper wire, ONE assembler making iron gear wheels, and ONE assembler making green circuits.

For my BLUE science line, I have ONE assembler making Blue packs. ONE assembler making Red circuits. ONE assembler making Green circuits. ONE chemical plant making plastic, and ONE oil refinery making petroleum gas. I also have ONE assembler making engine units, ONE assembler making iron gear wheels and ONE assembler making iron pipes.

This is separate AGAIN from my PURPLE science line, where I have ONE assembler making red circuits and ONE assembler making production module 1s. (Both the red circuit assembler and production module assembler feed off the same green circuit assembler that feeds the blue science line. Also both red circuit assemblers feed off the same plastic line.)

The only thing I ever build multiple of, at least for a specific resource, is mining drills, though each line has a different drill feeding it. I also have multiple drills mining coal, and multiple power production buildings (boilers and steam engines) due to NEEDING more in order to keep things running, an absolutely excessive amount in fact.

Plus it's a pure hassle to reproduce each assembly line. With the way my factory sprawls, it'd be impossible.

Why on earth would I build multiple production lines when the materials I do have, are barely enough to keep these lines satisfied? And why on Earth does WUBE expect you to feed 10+ assemblers without sufficient resources to feed ONE?

So what you are saying is, you are doing a self imposed challenge run where you throw all the production ratios out the window and instead go 1:1:1:1:1:1 all the way? I mean sure it sounds like a neat Idea, but I do not think you can expect anyone to see that as the "normal" way to play the game, lol.

The only two ways I could this type of gameplay emerge naturally, is if you are zoomed in so far that you dont see much on your screen, feeling like everything is cramped and to not build too much overall, Or that you just want to direct insert the everything and go mostly beltless.

It's mostly space-saving and resource-saving actually. Due to the tiny, depleting nature of ore patches, you don't get all that much from one patch so you have to maximize the materials you get by placing as few miners and assemblers as possible. Plus, you drastically cut down on the amount of space you use up per mini-factory, so you can expand as you need to rip up and replace. This isn't Satisfactory, where resource patches are infinite and you can afford to build multiple lines like that. (Hell, I even play Satisfactory the same way, and it ends up being faster.)

It isn't a self-imposed challenge run. It's the way I naturally play the game and hell, my entire complaint is that it ISN'T challenging AT ALL. The primary "challenge" is finding other things to do, because otherwise you have nothing to do except sit on your hands!

[mmmPI]

If I didn't use the mods then it would only be replacing the existing boredom with a new boredom. The inability to void items and instead having to keep crafting storage tanks indefinitely for items like liquids, which rapidly fill up my storage tanks and jam things up. That's why the new lava biome and the recycler are exciting - because it means I will no longer require those two mods just to play the base game.

I was under the impression that you experienced boredom due to having to wait, and i don't see how the recycler or lava would make you wait less, but i share your excitment for them nonetheless.

As I said, it'd be faster NOT to make a factory and craft everything in your inventory.

If you want to go fast you need to do both like they do in speedrun but the bigger your factory the better it gets, whereas if you are 1 player, it will only be the same crafting speed so if you play longer game than just lanching a rocket, you end up crafting less and less from inventory, just because all the machines you have are producing everything you need already super fast and you don't wait for anything, there is just too much things to do x)

[Saphira123456]

If I didn't use the mods then it would only be replacing the existing boredom with a new boredom. The inability to void items and instead having to keep crafting storage tanks indefinitely for items like liquids, which rapidly fill up my storage tanks and jam things up. That's why the new lava biome and the recycler are exciting - because it means I will no longer require those two mods just to play the base game.

I was under the impression that you experienced boredom due to having to wait, and i don't see how the recycler or lava would make you wait less, but i share your excitment for them nonetheless.

They would extend the actions I have to take while waiting for things to get built. So it's not waiting less, it's doing more in the game (as opposed to outside the game) to occupy that time.

all the machines you have are producing everything you need already super fast

"Super-fast" at one or two science packs per thirty minutes.

[GregoriusT]

It's mostly space-saving and resource-saving actually. Due to the tiny, depleting nature of ore patches, you don't get all that much from one patch so you have to maximize the materials you get by placing as few miners and assemblers as possible. Plus, you drastically cut down on the amount of space you use up per mini-factory. This isn't Satisfactory, where resource patches are infinite and you can afford to build multiple lines like that. (Hell, I even play Satisfactory the same way, and it ends up being faster.)

Uhm are you running minimal Ore generation settings with your Maps or something? Because with Default Settings even your starter ore patches are enough to run a quite big factory for a while before they deplete.

You need less than 1 Million Iron Ore (and far less of the other Stuff) to launch the first Rockets, so pretty much any Ore Patch that is not the Default Starter Patch will be more than enough to supply you until you beat the Game.

Remember Ore Patches get bigger the further away from the Center you are, to the point where you will often see Millions in a single patch within your Radars exploration Range at the very beginning even. Add the Mining Productivity Research to that and you can mine for even longer, and once you get Quality Mining Drills in 2.0 you deplete even LESS Ores!

Resource scarcity and Space scarcity practically do not exist in Default Factorio.

The only reason Space is scarce is because you decided to not leave your main plot of Land, or you walled yourself into a too small space, or you built everything too close to each other so you cant fit anything inbetween, all of which are problems caused by the Player themselves and not the Environment.

And Ores only FEEL scarce because they are not infinite at first glance, but once you reach the 10 million sized ore patches you will need a Megabase to deplete those. And those 10M+ sized patches are not even that far away from the Center. Sure they are guaranteed to be Biter infested even at the largest starting area size, but at that point you already have good enough weapons to get rid of the few Nests, so you just need to get over the anxiety of not knowing how well the weapons work against Biters.

I recommend using a Tank with Explosive Shells for clearing Nests up to 85% Evolution, that is available with Blue and Military Science quite early on, and you did say yourself that you do use the Car, so you should have enough driving experience to not run into Cliffs while circling the Biter Bases.

[layus]

Super hyped by the different challenges we are faced with. Space platforms with belts spaghetti, and now fulgura with small islands connected only by train .

One thing has been bugging me over the whole weekend: Elevation.

The game plays more and more with elevation (remember mountains and volcanoes) and now plateaus above a oily plain. If there are so many elevations, I think elevated rails over the oily plains should connect with floor level trains on the plateaus. That would be really amazing

Can we also dynamite the cliffs around a plateau ? Can we get a better sense of elevation, like having only undergrounds able to get through different elevations, like cliffs ?

[aka13]

"Super-fast" at one or two science packs per thirty minutes.

Man you had this conversation in a trillion threads already, does it need to be here as well?