Quality level names poll

[computeraddict]

Fluids will have a separate quality-like mechanic called purity, ranked in grades:

• Bulk grade

• Technical grade

• Laboratory grade

• Reagent grade

• Snake oil grade

These will be produced in the Woodshed Still in a manner similar to the recycler, but volume loss will only be an estimated 10% per grade increase instead of the recycler's ~75%.

[Gergely]

From a different topic...

• Baseline
• Decent
• Good
• Excellent
• Perfect

[EustaceCS]

As of liquids, I did asked in announcement comments. No response yet.
Since in either case (Liquids have quality vs Liquids don't have quality) there are a lot of impactful game design decisions to make, I can wait.
Maybe there'll be a dedicated FFF about how Quality would gonna interact with Liquids. It would be really nice to have one.

As of naming... okay, scrap liquids for now. Let's take Sulfur crystals.
Enhanced Sulfur. Bruh.
Precise Sulfur. Bruh.
Optimised Sulfur. Outright schizo.
And so on, and so on...

Ultimate Wood, anyone?

I mean, Legendary Sulfur is no better - but at least it's easy to understand for both new and old players.
(and equally awkward when used in combination with literally any in-game product/material without being excessivly ridiculous in particular combinations)

[ManaUser]

So based on current votes, it looks like a popular scale would be something like:

1. Normal
2. Improved
3. Superior
4. Exceptional
5. Perfect

Sounds good to me.

[Ranakastrasz]

Q1 - Q5 would get my vote. It worked fine in Sim Company, and that is a sufficiently industrial-ish game that I wouldn't find it out of place here.

But honestly, as long as it is mutable, I don't think it matters, because there will be a single mod within a day that has 50 different naming schemes you can just select.

[husnikadam]

I personally can't find a fitting name for tier 4. Most popular 'Exceptional' is good with its meaning, but the name is very long imho. People will likely come ap with a way to shorten it, the same has happened f.e. with green/red/blue chips. I suggest using term 'Exemplary'

[FuryoftheStars]

I personally can't find a fitting name for tier 4. Most popular 'Exceptional' is good with its meaning, but the name is very long imho. People will likely come ap with a way to shorten it, the same has happened f.e. with green/red/blue chips. I suggest using term 'Exemplary'

Green/red/blue is because that's easier to remember more so than length. And your alternative is shorter by 2 letters.

[quaatal]

The current naming scheme is very immersion-breaking. I don't think the Factorio engineer, who is certainly a professional, would call a copper plate above certain purity threshold "epic".

[Dev-iL]

Crude, Standard, Improved, Exceptional, Flawless

[ChefOfRamen]

"Perfect" is just missing something. "Flawless", meanwhile, has flair while meaning basically the same thing, so I'm voting for that.

[Tooster]

from worst to best:
C grade, B grade, A grade, S grade, SS grade

This is inspired by Osu! and power efficiency marks on household supplies (AAA+, AA, A, B, ... F, etc.)

Justification:
the "rare", "common", "uncommon", "epic", "legendary" and any similar don't describe the machines quality but rarity. Intel doesn't call their CPUs made from one wafer "rare" if they are of higher quality than others. They categorize them like 4650, 4660, 4670k etc, based on how well they perform. Machines as well — they are categorized by how power-efficient they are, not how rarely a machine of this grade is made.

Another thing is that some names are hard to remember. Assuming "pristine" was choosen. Without remembering other names, can you quickly tell me what quality it is? The same with "precise" and others. "Excelent" — is it better or worse than
Perfect"? "Improved"... Improved from what? "Normal", "Standard", "Fine", "Select", "Enhanced", "Superior", "Optimised", "Superfine", "Superb"... No... Those things are very hard to compare, because they don't belong on any known scale. It's like comparing adjectives "bigger" and "larger".

Using quality names like "poor" or "rough" is also in my mind quite bad, because it evokes a feeling that those things are "worse" and "subpar". They make you feel as if your current setup is poor, and you should upgrade it. I wouldn't like it if the majority of my factory for the most of the time was called "poor".

If we used the C,B,A,S,SS grades, then it suddenly becomes much clearer what is what and how they relate. You immediately know that B is one better than C, and SS is the best one. At the same time C quality doesn't seem to be "bad", it feels "regular" and "normal".

If someone disagrees, then a slightly adjusted scale could be B, A, S, SS, SSS or something similar.

I am not a fan of any of the propositions like "flawless", "perfect", "rough", "pristine", "precise" because they are hard to grasp and grade. "Crude" and others don't seem to fit the vibe of factorio. Oil is crude. Crude machine quality? Like what, is it made out of sticks and stones? Nope.

Someone above recommended Q1-Q5. That's a proposition taken in a good direction, but not quite yet there — it lacks this familiary of which number is the best and which is the worst. Just like a always confuse priority (for some priority=0 is the highest, for other's it's the lowest), I would also find myself often confused with Q1-Q5.

[FuryoftheStars]

While I understand and agree with most of what you said, I have to disagree with the C, B, A, S, SS being better. S & SS are foreign to me (and I'd imagine many others) in the A/B/C grade system. D & F would fit more naturally, but then this runs into the same issue as what you mentioned with poor and rough... they would feel bad (and really, to some people even C would feel bad, though these same people may see anything other than the highest as being bad).

Q1-Q5 avoids both of those issues, though you mention not knowing which is better (I'm guessing in reference to which end of the scale you start at). In Factorio, iirc, all grade scales (using numbers) start at 1 (well, for display purposes, nothing, I guess) and proceed numerically upward: Assembler < Assembler 2 < Assembler 3; productivity module < productivity module 2 < productivity module 3; etc. So in that context, it would only make sense to have Q1 (or rather, nothing) be the lowest and Q5 be the highest.

[Tooster]

While I understand and agree with most of what you said, I have to disagree with the C, B, A, S, SS being better. S & SS are foreign to me (and I'd imagine many others) in the A/B/C grade system.

I get you, although I think S and SS grades are not as unfamiliar for many as they may seem to you. Some examples where they often occur include rhythm games, Gatchas (although they often have S, SR, SSR), manga and anime, a common saying "S-tier something". When I read "S*" I always think about acronyms of "Super" and "Super Super", giving them this unique feel, which, by the way, I think is fitting their probabilities. Getting something of A quality is something I would find rare, but not exceptionally exciting, while getting something of S quality would be an actual moment of a nice surprise. Something SS, "the peak of the peak" is looking like "exceptionaly beyond the scale, so much that even there is no unique letter for that".

I propose, however, to consider that maybe instead of looking for a familiarity that was taken from another game, consider Factorio a good introductory ground for getting introduced to this grading system, a place you learn this scheme from. As for S, I think I have seen this very often, precisely as "above A", i.e. "above the regular scale"/"exceptional". I think this letter has this supreme feel to it, that, for example an alternative "A+" doesn't have. "A+" would feel something like "slightly better than A", while "S" stands out precisely for the purpose of indicating that it is something trully unique and on another tier.

I am not strongly against the Q1-Q5 idea, but in my opinion it lacks this little "OOMPH!". The current quality tiers, "normal", "uncommon", "rare", "epic", "legendary" capture this feeling well, that the first 3 tiers are "accessible by normal means" and the last two are more "prestigious", that I simply lack from Q1-Q5. And just like you compared it to module 1/2/3 — I think it is a bit too "boring" and monotonous, something I feel devs wanted to avoid with their "gaming" naming scheme — to move away from this simple numerical grading and make it more exciting. Oh, I know. Q1-Q5 seem to look like they are on a linear scale. Their and mine proposal, however, tries to capture this "exponential effort needed" feeling. And that is something I think A B C S SS captures a little better

[FuryoftheStars]

While I understand and agree with most of what you said, I have to disagree with the C, B, A, S, SS being better. S & SS are foreign to me (and I'd imagine many others) in the A/B/C grade system.

I get you, although I think S and SS grades are not as unfamiliar for many as they may seem to you. Some examples where they often occur include rhythm games, Gatchas (although they often have S, SR, SSR), manga and anime, a common saying "S-tier something". When I read "S*" I always think about acronyms of "Super" and "Super Super", giving them this unique feel, which, by the way, I think is fitting their probabilities. Getting something of A quality is something I would find rare, but not exceptionally exciting, while getting something of S quality would be an actual moment of a nice surprise. Something SS, "the peak of the peak" is looking like "exceptionaly beyond the scale, so much that even there is no unique letter for that".

[...] As for S, I think I have seen this very often, precisely as "above A", i.e. "above the regular scale"/"exceptional". I think this letter has this supreme feel to it, that, for example an alternative "A+" doesn't have. "A+" would feel something like "slightly better than A", while "S" stands out precisely for the purpose of indicating that it is something trully unique and on another tier.

Yeah, I've never seen an "S" rating, ever. Never played those game types, either. I've seen Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Titanium, though.

I propose, however, to consider that maybe instead of looking for a familiarity that was taken from another game, consider Factorio a good introductory ground for getting introduced to this grading system, a place you learn this scheme from.

My gripes with the Legendary naming scheme is because they feel out of place in this game. Both from a "how would an engineer name them" standpoint, and from a "that doesn't fit anything Factorio has done thus far" stand point (more to the idea of keeping a common theme within the same game). As such, I disagree with this notion.

[...] in my opinion it lacks this little "OOMPH!". [...]

So does everything else. But then again, engineering naming is rarely about the "OOMPH!" factor to other engineers (or I suppose in this case, oneself). It's once marketing gets a hold of it that some of that other stuff comes in. Many of them are Hellspawns, I swear.

[Fisherman]

Rarity levels do work for quality, somewhat, and might substitute more specific terms. They just don't fit the general Factorio theme, in my opinion.

I had material science course in my college (I am a car mechanic), but I forgot where I put my textbooks and if they are still intact.
So, IIRC, ores and metals are judged by purity (in case of copper, 00 (double zero) grade copper (in soviet classification, contains 99,99% of copper) is the highest one, followed by 0 (99,95%), 1 (99,9%), 2 (99,7%), 3 (99,5%) and 4 (99%), but different countries have different names), alloys by quality (St45, Steel45, A45 and Ш45 are of different quality: namely Common steel 45 (with 0.45% carbon), Quality steel 45, High-quality steel 45 and exceptionally high-quality steel 45) which usually means amount of harmful additives. Machines are varying, but usually either deal with precision, or with production capability. And so on, and so on.

So, we cannot all agree on generic quality names simply because many people here encounter quality in many different forms in their day life (there are even such a thing as quality (or, rather, precision and detail) of a blueprint, though I hope it wouldn't be implemented in the game). I think, either Q1-Q5 or Q0-Q4 or even Normal-Perfect will do as long as appropriate tutorial explains what specific quality means and does.
(And yes, in Russian it is relatively simple: just don't specify normal quality, make +1 be Quality, +2 be High-quality, +3 be Exceptional (because Exceptionally high-quality, while somewhat shorter in Russian, is still a mouthful) and +4 be Perfect. This is my personal opinion, though.)

[Koub]

from worst to best:
C grade, B grade, A grade, S grade, SS grade

This is inspired by Osu! and power efficiency marks on household supplies (AAA+, AA, A, B, ... F, etc.)

Not gonna lie, this gives me harcode anime "tier list" vibes.

examples

Note : just a quick search on the Internet, not my tier lists

[MeduSalem]

Normal
Improved
Superior
Exceptional
Perfect

That is if I had to pick some from the list. But I am not all too impressed by them either.

To be honest I would prefer something that is more technical. I would like Q1-Q5 because at least I know what level it is just by looking at the number. Or at least a naming scheme that would be more industrial-grade where you know at a glance "this is better than that" without having to remember a name.

But it is not the end of the world if fantasy names end up being in the game. I cannot wait to hear all those tales from the epic power pole out in the middle of nowhere that got mowed down by a rare tank. Or that legendary land mine that blew up a biter.

I suppose eventually there will be a mod that changes the names to whatever anyone could desire anyway. xD

[Tertius]

How about a tier name configuration section in the settings? A configurable list of 5 words shouldn't be too difficult to add. For multiplayer, the list from the server is used to avoid desyncs.

[Qon]

How about a tier name configuration section in the settings? A configurable list of 5 words shouldn't be too difficult to add. For multiplayer, the list from the server is used to avoid desyncs.

That is a very funny joke!
Though some might believe that you are serious.

[Ranakastrasz]

How about a tier name configuration section in the settings? A configurable list of 5 words shouldn't be too difficult to add. For multiplayer, the list from the server is used to avoid desyncs.

That is a very funny joke!
Though some might believe that you are serious.

Since this only effects text, and localization is already a thing, you don't even need it to be serverside.