Friday Facts #420 - Fusion Reactor

[DanGio]

I'm glad you made the choice of complex setups instead of just 1 powerful entity, it is truly the spirit of Factorio.

[Dmytrozern]

Looks good, and an interesting puzzle for sure.
I still have hopes for a more complex power system, like RealisticReactors, which is more fun&dangerous to tinker with that simply a pattern puzzle...

+1. This looks like a different version of nuclear. A bit different placement puzzle, but nothing challenging in terms of maintenance(or so i think). Oil processing has it interesting - you can build it, but got still need to think of stuff to but back-up or "overprocess".


I'm also happy that you can't just buffer plasma in tanks like you could do with steam. The last one always torn me up between efficiency and cheese, coz accumulators weren't even needed if not solar.


Ps. Will..... Will we get fusion-warhead missiles?

[MrFaul]

I think it looks absolutely awesome.
But I don't like the mechanics, they feel way to similar to fission, rather repetitive.

I'd would love to seen something akin to Helions approach, directly using the magnetic field of the plasma to generate electricity.
This way the generator would be pulsed. Meaning any uncaptured energy would be lost.
Going this route further any uncaptured energy could add to the cooldown as penalty.
This lends it very well to the lighting capture and could be a natural progression.
Would add a complete new dimension to the energy management.

So it's a missed opportunity for me.

Nevertheless it looks awesome and does it job as "space energy source" so while I find it mechanically boring it's still a welcome addition 😉

[hoho]

I'm also happy that you can't just buffer plasma in tanks like you could do with steam.

You still can do that by buffering the plasma in the generators from what I understand. It'll just be rather inefficient in terms of space and materials used compared to using fluid tanks.


This part confused me somewhat:

Of course, you don't necessarily need to have 18 generators if you have 3 reactors at +200% each. If you have fewer then the system is still as efficient but has less max output and will buffer some plasma. Alternatively, you could have more generators than the reactors can supply at max load so that when electricity demand is low the plasma is buffered but you have more electricity production if there's a sudden peak in draw.

Will the fusion reactor function the same way as nuclear one in that it burns fuel constantly regardless of demand and players need to turn it off via combinators to save on fuel or will the reactors stop on their own when they can't output plasma?

[Soheil]

As you know, the tokamak doesn't produce energy continuously but in short pulses, unlike a continuously burning sun. Here's a simple breakdown of how it works:

Initialization Phase:

Inject power to activate the tokamak's magnets.
Cool the magnets using liquid helium or nitrogen (not water).

Power Generation Phase:

Turn on the central pillar magnet (coil).
Start generating power.

Saturation and Reset:

Once the central pillar magnet (coil) is saturated, turn it off.
Repeat the process.

Think of it like a piston engine, generating power in a sequence!

The current design concept is too simple and not interesting enough. Let's make it more engaging!

[hoho]

Not sure if that is the case considering the real-world tokamak experiments keep on putting out news about how they're breaking duration records of stable plasma that are in several minutes range. Afaik they have that periodic generation because they've not yet figured out how to make it stable but getting there is the eventual goal.

[JigSaW]

While good on its own this addition is yet another "new" thing I already experienced in Space Exploration, including the thermofluid mechanic.

[GregoriusT]

Wooo, finally the portable fusion reactor got changed to something more fitting for that stage of the Game!


I am however slightly concerned about Fission being dropped by players after a while. Like at least give us SOME incentive to use Fission in Space like the RTGs in Satellites, so we got a slightly more compact power source than spamming Solars. I know you cant use Steam in Space like you can in Space Exploration, so there would need to be another way.

I would just like more than 1 option for midgame Spaceship power, and to preserve the uniqueness of Fission compared to the other sources. ^^


We definitely need SOME reason to harvest Uranium from Nauvis though, even if it is just a lategame Science Pack.

[morse]

Not so sure that making plasma completely un-transportable is a great idea. You can make the plasma tubes expensive, make them loose part of the energy, make them use electricity to function, but still, I think without any ability to transfer plasma even a little you limit the amount of viable designs substantially.

[Soheil]

Not sure if that is the case considering the real-world tokamak experiments keep on putting out news about how they're breaking duration records of stable plasma that are in several minutes range. Afaik they have that periodic generation because they've not yet figured out how to make it stable but getting there is the eventual goal.

Tokamaks work in short bursts, like 100 milliseconds, because they need to reach 150 million degrees for fusion. The main problem is doing this repeatedly and reaching that temperature every time before the central magnet (coil) saturates. Once the central magnet saturates, the plasma can't maintain its circular shape and will collide with the walls. Real-world experiments are making progress, but achieving this continuously with positive net energy is still the goal.

[Stalinlover22]

Awesome! Bigger Machines requires Bigger Energy generators

[Mango]

This meant that they'd fill up in a chain or tree pattern and the % of glowing generators would be the % capacity you are using. That feature was lost with the fluid system rework because now they all draw evenly from the same collective 'pool' of plasma.

Sounds like you're trying to upset us over the new fluid system so that you can present a little "detail" in future FFF that solves the issue.

Edit: Also I remember you mentioned somewhere in the fluids FFF that you're working on a way to keep the flow direction animation. Maybe these things are related?

[PaszaVonPomiot]

In general all looks good. What I was most satisfied about in basic Factorio was kovarex enrichment process - it was interesting challenge to build one. I was always missing the unstability partu of high energy sources. Like I would love to have eg. exploding reactors that would need to be controlled eg. by circuit network. So in the end you could use very efficient power source but you would need to control the risk associated with using it.

[Jaclyn]

Man, that lineart is so sexy. I want a mod where all the art is just luneart like that. Would be so stylistic and cool looking.

[morse]

Like I would love to have eg. exploding reactors that would need to be controlled eg. by circuit network.

As far as I understood, the design goal is to be able to beat the game without circuit networks. The game will never have a system that is unusable without it.

[ChefOfRamen]

So we have thermofluid now? What's next on the list of mechanics ported over from Space Exploration?

All joking aside, this looks pretty cool and I imagine it will play out similar to impact reactors from Mindustry, where your whole power grid can collapse if there's a hiccup in the fuel or coolant. And you're desparately trying to restart it before the bugs chew through your walls.

[Lord Bumbleton]

Wooo, finally the portable fusion reactor got changed to something more fitting for that stage of the Game!


I am however slightly concerned about Fission being dropped by players after a while. Like at least give us SOME incentive to use Fission in Space like the RTGs in Satellites, so we got a slightly more compact power source than spamming Solars. I know you cant use Steam in Space like you can in Space Exploration, so there would need to be another way.

I would just like more than 1 option for midgame Spaceship power, and to preserve the uniqueness of Fission compared to the other sources. ^^

We definitely need SOME reason to harvest Uranium from Nauvis though, even if it is just a lategame Science Pack.

You know that it was specifically shown that you can use fission in space, right? Uranium will also be needed not only for fission, but for space science production.

[TiMatic]

Has the max pumping rate of the Offshore Pump been increased from 1200 to like ~3000?
Otherwise I don't understand how the 4 pumps can supply enough water for that 2x4 Nuclear build.

Maybe it's a pump with highest quality as they have 150% additional throughput: 1200 (100%) + 1800 (150 %) = 3000.

[Theikkru]

In this FFF image, it appears that "warm coolant" is treated as an entirely separate fluid from "cool coolant":

I'm apprehensive about how the difference in temperature will be handled; I think it would be clunky and a shame for this new coolant to be a special case where different temperatures are handled via separate fluids when the game already has fluid temperature handling built in (see: steam). The fluid changes FFF did not address temperature at all, so I assume that that math will remain unchanged.
It would also be kind of immersion breaking if you tried to connect warm and cool coolant pipes, only to be stopped by the "different fluids" error.

P.S. I would also appreciate some graphical indication (e.g. a teal fringe along the edges of plasma pipes) to suggest that coolant is moving from the reactors to the generators. Currently, it looks like it's just getting eaten by the reactors, and magically spit out at a higher temperature by generators some distance away.

[Danjen]

I barely used nuclear in vanilla, so this doesnt feel necessary to me. Though, having more upgrades/options is always nice.
If the plasma temp doesnt matter to a player, why have it displayed at all?
Surprising there is no pipes available for plasma. I guess the point is to keep designs localized and compact?

Also there was a bit about nuclear needing water and space and so its not suitable on platforms: Doesnt NASA and satellites and stuff make heavy use of nuclear batteries? I guess its not the same as an onsite nuclear plant and they would have lower output anyways.
Actually, its surprising theres no emergency/portable building that takes nuclear fuel to generate power, like a generator that runs on vehicle fuel