Display Aquilo heating value in tooltips

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ToasterKoishi
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Display Aquilo heating value in tooltips

Post by ToasterKoishi »

TL;DR
Entity tooltips should display that entity's heating value (heat wattage) required to prevent it from freezing on Aquilo.
What?
At the minimum, in tooltips for entities with a heating_energy value in their prototype, display somewhere in their tooltip that heating energy value.

Additionally, the following may be considered:
  • Only display this information when viewing a surface that requires heating.
  • Display this information in a new tooltip section titled "Requires heating" or similar, with one values, "Consumption" displaying the heating energy in watts.
  • Additionally display, in the above section, an additional value, "Min. temperature: 30 °C". However, this may mislead players into thinking that some entities have a different minimum temperature, and may be ommitted.
Why?
The mechanics of heating on Aquilo are very opaque to the player; between all the information officially available to the player (in-game tips and tricks and FFF), a particularly studious player would learn that "Every entity that needs heat also consumes heat", that the minimum heat is 30 °C, and that unheated entities will freeze and not work. The first two pieces of information require reading the FFF - and quite closely for the one line about entities consuming heat! I have observed that the average player on the Factorio Discord does not know that heat is consumed on a per-entity basis with some players thinking that heat is not consumed at all (and that reaching a minimum temperature is all that is required), and some others thinking that heat loss is either per heat pipe segment or at a constant rate over an entire heat network.

The real offender, and the main motivation for this request, is that some entities have incredibly unintuitive heating values. For example, did you know that an pipe to ground consumes 150kW of heat, when a regular pipe only consumes 1kW? This is a massive slap in the face for most players who have assumed that heat consumption between entities of similar tile-size are likely the same, and have "optimized" long pipelines, such as those from their starter lithium or fluorine patches, with long series of pipe-to-grounds assuming that the lower entity count would require less heating, when it is in fact consuming 30x the heating energy (2 pipe-to-grounds vs 10 regular pipes). Additionally, the most common crafting machine on Aquilo, chemical plants, along with most other crafting machines, tend to consume around 50/100/200kW of heat, which is comparable to a pipe to ground, but most players would likely "intuit" that pipe to grounds cost significantly less heating energy. There is a similar effect with underground belts, where a full length of regular belts costs less heating, but the heating cost of the underground is much less significant of a difference than the pipe-to-ground case so it is more excusable.

Finally, official sources of information do not list the actual list of heating exempt entities. Between tips and tricks and FFF, a player can learn that power poles, solar panels, and accumulators do not require heating. However, there are several other entities, such as stone/steel furnaces and chests, that do not require heating. Additionally, many players come to assume that power poles require heating anyways, and I have observed several cases where players run heat pipes to substations or big electric poles.

Although tooltip information will not completely alleviate these issues (as players who do not read anything ever exist), they provide necessary information in a much more accessible place that most players will look at on a regular basis.
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Re: Display Aquilo heating value in tooltips

Post by FlachFritz »

Very well said, thank you!
Everything else in Factorio you can calculate and plan, but heating on Aquilo is pure trial and error. Which is really frustrating because a screwup on Aquilo likely means that you have to spend minutes booting up your heaters again and maybe even fly home to import fuel.
Related Request
It would be nice to connect cables to heat pipes to read their temperature. For example to have an early warning when some remote part of your base starts to freeze.
Related question
Does the heat loss scale with temperature, like in the real world where hotter things radiate away much more energy? Or is it a constant wattage?

In other words: Is there any advantage to having multiple lower-temperature heating towers rather than a few central ~950 degree heating towers?
Zaflis
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Re: Display Aquilo heating value in tooltips

Post by Zaflis »

ToasterKoishi wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 6:25 pmFor example, did you know that an pipe to ground consumes 150kW of heat, when a regular pipe only consumes 1kW?
No, i did not and how could i have? :P

Tooltips are already convoluted, maybe we could click on the heat pipe and open up a window that displays all heat consumers connected to its grid similar to power grid UI but much simpler.
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BEEFE
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Re: Display Aquilo heating value in tooltips

Post by BEEFE »

Haven't gotten to Aquilo yet but the tooltips already change between planets (most notably, pollution isn't shown outside of Nauvis), so this seems like it should be doable from a UI intelligibility perspective.

That said, it absolutely makes sense that pipes buried in ice would need more heating than pipes lying on top of the ground. But as you said, you wouldn't know that the game does that without it telling you in some way.
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Re: Display Aquilo heating value in tooltips

Post by Cerberus »

I am right now playing Aquilo and wondering the exact same things.
It is frustrating to learn that there are more entities that don't require heating, even though the tips & tricks only stated solar panels and accumulators.
It also took me a while to figure out that "adjecent heat pipe" includes diagonally.
I did not even know pipes lose heat on a "per entity" basis! It is nowhere explained in the game that I found. It might be in the FFF's but I haven't read the planetary FFF's to minimise spoilers. In fact, many game mechanics (especially in the expansion) seem underexplained if you have not read the FFF's. It should not be a requirement obviously to functionally play the game well and know its mechanics, many players probably do not even know they exist.
Feels like this planet could use a few more "heating mechanics" tips and tricks and if different entities indeed consume different amounts of heat, it could use a tooltip and at the very least it should be on the Factoriopedia.
I was thinking all this time the loss of heat on the heat pipes was simply done by the cold atmosphere.

I was also wondering if one central tower would be better than building multiple, but because heat spreads so slowly to the corners of my base, sometimes becoming impossible even to heat, I built multiple towers anyway and since everything heats much faster I kind of was assuming multiple towers are better because heat spreads faster near my tower so you can "beat the lowering temperatures" with less fuel if you spread them out. But now I read your topic I assume the real reason the corners of my base do not heat up with just one tower is because there are more entities between the tower and the corners so all heat is already consumed (one tower only consumes a fixed rate of Watts), and building two towers centrally could have the same result as spreading them out (except a longer wait at the beginning of course when you kickstart the heating process to unfreeze everything).

For the rest, I really like Aquilo, unique building challenge :)
rapus
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Re: Display Aquilo heating value in tooltips

Post by rapus »

I LOVE the idea of being able to click a heat pipe to show consumers and producers. At the same time I'd love to get the mechanic of fluid pipes which show all connected pipes with an overlay. Sometimes it's quite difficult to find out if all heat pipes are connected to the same big grid or if a single tower unintentionally heats only 5% of my base. Having said that, I'd love a general update Networks 2.0 which supplies all networks, be it fluid pipes, energy, or said heat pipes with those features. Overlay that highlights the whole network and shows inflow/outflow directions at network borders and lists production/consumption aka inflow/outflow rates. And in particular the ability to trigger a "deconstruct network" command (which warns if there are more than 50 segments in it).
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Romayne
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Re: Display Aquilo heating value in tooltips

Post by Romayne »

+1. Now that heat pipes are more important to understand as a connected network, players need to actually know all about what's going on with them. Can't get away with the 'it has heat :)' kind of tooltips the game uses right now when it's a core mechanic of a planet. Imagine if spoilage just... spoiled! With no percentage. Maybe not the greatest example as spoilage is per-item, but that's the general idea running through my head.
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