[boskid] [2.0.14] Speed module quality malus does not apply to in-progress products

[Scaevolus]

This curious contraption makes uncommon modules at an uncommon pace, since the quality bonus appears to be checked only when production starts. It inserts speed modules into the beacons when production starts, and takes them out when the recipe finishes.

11-07-2024, 13-16-43.png (1.22 MiB) Viewed 5391 times

I'm not sure if this is a bug, but would like clarity before I invest in a build widely using it.

Save attached, otherwise here's a blueprint for the scenario editor:

Code: Select all

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

[Genhis]

Thanks for the report. In the next release, quality will be reset when module effects change.

[Quezler]

does this mean that if you have for example a machine crafting with quality 3 epic modules and you swap/upgrade them with quality 3 legendary modules that the high quality chance for that recipe "has just gone down the drain", or does this only apply if the new quality % is lower than the old quality %?

[Genhis]

All module changes reset quality of the current craft to its default value based on the selected recipe. So the first produced item is created as if the machine had no quality modules and subsequent ones will use quality modules again.

[ArEyeses]

To me it feels weird that adding efficiency modules would also reset the quality, since they don't change the quality chance. Same with upgrading to better quality modules since that wouldn't be exploitable.
(Although it makes sense for changing speed modules, which do decrease quality, to reset the quality roll to default)

[boskid]

Ref viewtopic.php?p=637797#p637797

[Karechta]

All module changes reset quality of the current craft to its default value based on the selected recipe. So the first produced item is created as if the machine had no quality modules and subsequent ones will use quality modules again.

Do Low Power spikes affect this aswell? I think Beacon effect is reduced when you have Low Power warnings on them.

[boskid]

This logic was changed in the last moment before 2.0.17 release and it only clears result quality when quality effect value was reduced. I do not care how it got reduced, if it was reduced because more beacons with speed modules becomes active then thats a roll clear.

[trupen]

I was told it's a feature and it was great :/

[bnrom]

Shame, it seemed a pretty cool dynamic...

[yangbowen1028]

reset quality of the current craft to its default value based on the selected recipe

Why not update the quality value only if the newer value is lower instead? i.e. use the lowest quality value during the timespan of that crafting. I imagine that would be smoother in cases of module change or power supply fluctuation, while still avoiding being exploitable. Or perhaps there's some technical limitations preventing doing that?

[Genhis]

Why not update the quality value only if the newer value is lower instead? i.e. use the lowest quality value during the timespan of that crafting. I imagine that would be smoother in cases of module change or power supply fluctuation, while still avoiding being exploitable. Or perhaps there's some technical limitations preventing doing that?

Personally, I consider this to be an edge case not worth pushing further. It was sort of implemented, see boskid's response.

This logic was changed in the last moment before 2.0.17 release and it only clears result quality when quality effect value was reduced. I do not care how it got reduced, if it was reduced because more beacons with speed modules becomes active then thats a roll clear.

[yangbowen1028]

Why not update the quality value only if the newer value is lower instead? i.e. use the lowest quality value during the timespan of that crafting. I imagine that would be smoother in cases of module change or power supply fluctuation, while still avoiding being exploitable. Or perhaps there's some technical limitations preventing doing that?

Personally, I consider this to be an edge case not worth pushing further. It was sort of implemented, see boskid's response.

This logic was changed in the last moment before 2.0.17 release and it only clears result quality when quality effect value was reduced. I do not care how it got reduced, if it was reduced because more beacons with speed modules becomes active then thats a roll clear.

Do Low Power spikes affect this aswell? I think Beacon effect is reduced when you have Low Power warnings on them.

While module insertion/removal is indeed an edge case, I personally disagree that power spikes constitute such an edge case. Especially considering Quality Module 3 is unlocked on Fulgora, where power supply tends to be much random. If a player during low power situations suddenly find that quality product output rate dropping by a significant amount (because the beacons fluctuate between on-off), that might be surprising and unwanted.

[boskid]

This is only triggered by quality going down and i see no reason to attempt finding "legit" use cases for any of this because if there would be any, they could be intentionally enforced to cause beacons to temporarily stop working. How would this look like: have beacons powered by lightning rods that power down, and exactly at the point in time beacons are powered down you start crafting with quality but now lightnings appear and beacons power up increasing speed of machine. Just stop inventing weird scenarios. Quality was reduced, rolled quality goes to base quality. You should not even be able to tell the difference because it only affects quality of currently crafted recipe and it is an implementation detail that quality is rolled at the beginning of craft. It could be a normal quality roll and there was no quality change because there was no quality increase to begin with.