Legendary Yumako & Jelly Nut Seeds should grow legendary plants

[Noxissist]

This one is fairly self explanatory, legendary quality seeds should create legendary quality trees, which produce legendary quality jellynuts and legendary quality yamako.

Same for the other quality tiers.

[jaylawl]

It isn't possible, because that would mean you just need 1 legendary seed each to have an infinite supply of any legendary quality item that can be made with those. It would be akin to having an ore patch from which you will mine 100 % legendary ore.

[Tinyboss]

Exactly. As soon as you recycle up a single pentapod egg, you'd have an unending supply of those. Together with infinite 100% legendary bioflux, so now all your ag science is legendary forever. Absolutely broken.

Higher quality seeds could do something like increase yield or reduce growing time, though. You end up with an enormous surplus, so it would feel better to do something other than dump them into the fire.

[Noxissist]

Gleba is also the most complicated and difficult planet in terms of spoilable products, so why shouldn't it have the biggest reward?

Sure, you will start getting an infinite supply of legendary materials, but that is the point, the player has worked their way all the way through the tech tree, setup a base, and at the moment, all gleba is good for is a bit of agri science.

I wanted to find a way to start producing legendary plastic, and if the legendary seeds made legendary plants then Gleba would have a purpose again, because otherwise I could just cheese infinite legendary plastic in other ways (for example high LDS productivity with LDS recycling, ala Nilaus).

The devs most likely didn't intend to punish anyone by making the game excessively difficult in stupid ways, and since there are so many ways to get infinite legendary materials, it would be cool to have some legendary materials source without cheesing some productivity mechanic.

The yield on seeds is also very low, so to start gathering enough legendary seeds to make legendary plants, which also have a very low seed yield rate would make the process a lot like Kovarex Enrichment where a threshold amount of input products needs to be built up before the self sustaining loop starts.

[CyberCider]

Gleba is also the most complicated and difficult planet in terms of spoilable products, so why shouldn't it have the biggest reward?

Sure, you will start getting an infinite supply of legendary materials, but that is the point, the player has worked their way all the way through the tech tree, setup a base, and at the moment, all gleba is good for is a bit of agri science.

Well, that’s not true, Gleba exports bioflux. Which is needed for biter eggs on Nauvis and biochambers on Vulcanus. You could argue it’s even more important than Vulcanus, because some really determined people would probably be willing to source all their calcite from asteroids instead of shipping it from Vulcanus. I personally consider it a silly idea, but I’m sure someone out there would seriously consider it.

Also, the problem with legendary seeds compared to other methods of making legendary base materials is the fact that it simply produces too much. It 1:1 converts all your Gleba production to legendary. Other methods produce smaller amounts, and need to be scaled up in order to be useful. This would just let you legendarify your whole Gleba base, without making any changes to it. It’s far too easy and far too simple.

I’m also not the biggest fan of some methods that currently exist, but they’re all leagues more balanced than this. They at least require you to sink a large amount of science packs into productivity infinite technologies, and to set up a recycling loop of some kind.

[yangbowen1028]

Exactly. As soon as you recycle up a single pentapod egg, you'd have an unending supply of those. Together with infinite 100% legendary bioflux, so now all your ag science is legendary forever. Absolutely broken.

Not only agricultural science, but bacteria->ore->everything.

Higher quality seeds could do something like increase yield or reduce growing time, though. You end up with an enormous surplus, so it would feel better to do something other than dump them into the fire.

Or perhaps less spores per harvest?

[The Phoenixian]

I honestly thought this myself a few times while playing through Gleba. In the end I'm still torn.

On the one hand, Selective breeding for quality is very, very in theme for what was described as "the agricultural planet."

On the other hand, it does feel like the mechanics of quality aren't at all geared towards how that should work. Selective breeding fits something that would be hard to get in initial batches and easy to scale, where quality is conversely relatively easy to get and hard to scale.

If it was tied to a both the seeds and agricultural towers planting needing to be of a certain quality to net trees of that quality that might work, but even then it feels like there might be a more appropriate challenge.

[angramania]

Gleba is also the most complicated and difficult planet in terms of spoilable products, so why shouldn't it have the biggest reward?

Because it is already the most rewarding of three planets.

Your idea is not new and was already discussed several times

[Chumfactor]

Suggestion: Planting quality seeds should yeild quality trees that bear quality fruit, which can be processed into more quality products, including seeds.

It seems that, currently, quality on Gleba is strictly percentage-chance.

My thoughts unfolded as...

Do trees planted with quality seeds produce quality fruit? Can that be used to make quality mash/jelly, from which is made quality bioflux? Etc.

Do we need quality soil and a quality tree-planter too?

---

Hmm, seeds don't have quality, but Yumako fruit & mash does, as does jelly & bioflux. So, is there no way to do it on-purpose, it's all just % chance stuff?

Would be cool to make quality plastic / iron / copper / etc on Gleba.

[mmmPI]

similar to 124678

[jaylawl]

It seems that, currently, quality on Gleba is strictly percentage-chance.

All quality production is based on chance. If quality seeds would yield quality produce, you would instantly have infinite quality produce, because the chance would be taken out of the equation. This should not be added to the game.

[Chumfactor]

All quality production is based on chance.

This is not true.

* Set an assembly plant's [common] recipe for Rare pipes.
* Feed Rare iron into Assembly plant.
* Get Rare pipes 100% of the time.

You need to jump-start with rare iron, which is gotten randomly but, once you have material, quality production is easy.


More to your real objection -- that of infinite quality resources -- I agree that is an issue. Perhaps quality seeds just add a chance at quality fruit (like quality modules in assembly plants), or some other limiting factor. Regardless, quality fruit still spoils, so that's always a limiter!

[jaylawl]

This is not true.

* Set an assembly plant's [common] recipe for Rare pipes.
* Feed Rare iron into Assembly plant.
* Get Rare pipes 100% of the time.

You need to jump-start with rare iron, which is gotten randomly but, once you have material, quality production is easy.

Yeah, of course. But at this point you already have the quality ingredients, which were gained by chance. I propably could've articulated myself better there.

More to your real objection -- that of infinite quality resources -- I agree that is an issue. Perhaps quality seeds just add a chance at quality fruit (like quality modules in assembly plants), or some other limiting factor. Regardless, quality fruit still spoils, so that's always a limiter!

Quality seeds (or quality modules in agricultural towers for that matter) having a chance to farm quality fruit i would have no objection against. I don't see it as neccessary, but i don't see how that would hurt.

[Koub]

[Koub] Merged into an older thread with the same suggestion.

[deluxev2]

Another idea for a quality seed downside is more spores. If legendary seeds/trees produced 6x spores, I still think it would be probably be too strong but it would definitely be a more interesting choice.

[h.q.droid]

Another idea is to make legendary seeds grow legendary fruits, but make legendary fruits crush into normal seeds. That kinda breaks the current quality assumptions but could be an interesting addition to the quality system.

[coffee-factorio]

irl, selective breeding can yield plants that produce qualitatively better products. Issue is that you run into natural tradeoffs which yield inconsistent outcomes: pests love to eat big yummy things and the immune systems on those plants suffer from being products of artificial selection. From the p.o.v. of the plant, it survives if it yields to human expectations only, but it only has so many options and those don't always work in practice.

When I think about the idea it seems deceptively simple from that point of view. The quality level of the fruit could reduce the chance of seeds in all cases. So your legendary yumako would give you something like having a fantastic initial cycle, but the chances of you being able to reproduce it are ultimately dependent on the volume of production you are doing, the modules you put in and the ability to keep the cycle of fruit from dying or deadlocking due to resource over production.

This would result in some difficult math because the chance to get a quality seed from the step to produce seeds would always be slightly higher: a <2% chance of another plant times modules mixes that include productivity and quality at the same time. That's rough to balance against.

[Rancara]

How's this for a fix to the "Infinite Quality Stuffs" objection?

Unlike using quality ingredients in quality recipes, quality seeds would not guarantee quality fruit. Just make it more probable. So, for example, if you plant some Epic (purple) quality seeds, the fruit yielded will have a high chance of also being purple (say... 40%?), with lower chances of deterioration to lower qualities, (say... 30% blue, 20% green, and 10% common = 100%?).

Obviously, those numbers would have to be changed and balanced to achieve a reasonable, non-irritating, balanced challenge. I'm just throwing them out for demonstration.

This would also mean that maintaining higher quality crops would get harder and harder for higher qualities, as the percentages get split between more and more lower tiers, the higher you go. Uncommon seeds only get their chances split between uncommon and common (say, 60%/40%), while legendary has to give a portion of percentage to itself and all 4 lower tiers (say, 35/25/20/15/5).

This would also mean that the only way to sustain reasonable/viable amounts of higher and higher qualities would be to further expand production, which is, of course, very in-theme and on-point for this game.

[mmmPI]

This would also mean that the only way to sustain reasonable/viable amounts of higher and higher qualities would be to further expand production, which is, of course, very in-theme and on-point for this game.

That is already the case currently.

A sligthly higher return on quality fruits from quality seed would not be a positive i think. It wouldn't simplify the system players have to make to create quality spoilables, they would still have to deal with all the different levels, just in sligthly more favorable ratios. On the other, they will have a much harder time managing their seeds, and activating the proper agricultural tower at the proper moment, as you don't have enough slots in the the tower for all the quality levels, and you risk stockpiling "quality seed" and not finding a use for them, while requiring only "basic" material

[Rancara]

That is already the case currently.

A sligthly higher return on quality fruits from quality seed would not be a positive i think. It wouldn't simplify the system players have to make to create quality spoilables, they would still have to deal with all the different levels, just in sligthly more favorable ratios. On the other, they will have a much harder time managing their seeds, and activating the proper agricultural tower at the proper moment, as you don't have enough slots in the the tower for all the quality levels, and you risk stockpiling "quality seed" and not finding a use for them, while requiring only "basic" material

Not sure how you are thinking that seed management would become significantly harder. This wouldn't necessitate any kind of tower management. Only that seeds be sorted before being sent back to the towers such that higher quality seeds receive priority to be planted first. Or perhaps that separate towers be designated for each quality being planted, with seeds being sorted and sent to the correct tower.

As for this not being any different in regards to expansion=quality&quantity save for better ratios/percentages of quality stuff, you're only partially right. In general, yes. It is already the case that expansion is the only way if you want more of the good stuff. But in more detail, this system would allow for a degree of "quality momentum" to be built up, without eliminating the need to deal with a percentage of crap-quality stuff.

Also, as things are now, you are ALWAYS starting from 0 in regards to quality spoilables. All fruit that comes in is common. And you get a flat percentage of that common supply as the tiers above, in whatever chances your modules can give you for whatever quality you are aiming for. There is no churning things up one or two levels at a time, as there is with non-spoilables. At least not reasonably within the time limit of them spoiling. If you want legendary, but aren't lucky enough to get legendary straight from common in ONE PASS, then you are out of luck, because it all resets back to common as soon as you plant the seeds. This would make that problem more reasonable.