I'm afraid of reddit influence

[Stargateur]

7 days ago a shit storm happen on reddit, someone screen shot something from factorio discord, and a lot of people have strong word like "I will mod it instantly", "that would stop me from playing", etc...

I search for the original message on discord and hopefully no such strong reaction happen at the time, even the contrary. I'm very afraid that such event prevent dev from factorio to do what they think is good for the game. Yes, feedback is important to listen, but change are always view as bad by most people. This is true for anything. So here my 2 cents, don't listen too much reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... erf_in_21/

Specially a lot of people say such change is "too late". I strongly disagree, it's never too late to stop smoking.

[pioruns]

So here my 2 cents, don't listen too much reddit.

Right.
Personally, I am not visiting any Factorio-related content on reddit. If they wanted to post something about Factorio, they can do it here. Just ignore.

[h.q.droid]

I'm with reddit. Nerfing emergent gameplay is bad, just like how nerfing landmine and long-nose space platforms is bad.

The quality system, as the devs have intended, is very poorly designed. It's self contradictory as the yield probability design encourages using quality in every step, but everything else like conflicting with speed module and not-stacking-across-quality work against it. It's only playable right now because of asteroid rolling and LDS shuffling.

[coffee-factorio]

I'm actually on reddit and kind of looking into that. I might have more to say about it in a way people will find interesting. I don't think the people are right or wrong. It's just what is being discussed has some interesting mechanical properties.

When I looked at it I remember thinking "Ah, well I can make legendary heat pipes infinitely now what about everything else". LDS shuffle being nerfed wouldn't hurt my feelings though because that's still two entire systems a player doesn't have to explore with quality.

But it is fascinating because of how it relates to upcycling LDS. Because on paper it's infinite resources. In practice you want plastic too. And LDS upcycle using assemblers will reliably beat LDS shuffle while returning plastic and LDS - you have to pay for it of course instead of just putting things in a box.

If you try using fluid based LDS using foundries the things end up robbing you blind. It's at the point where you could make an argument for safety for the nerf, you'd be better off without that option.

[eugenekay]

I cant even tell what to be upset about?

• Oh no, Change is bad! Let’s stay with 1.1.111111!
• Leaking screenshots from Discord is against Privacy!
• Reddit is full of trolls
• I hate Gleba

Just play the game.

[mmmPI]

This is true for anything. So here my 2 cents, don't listen too much reddit.

We shouldn't listen too much to reddit because you're afraid of its influence ? That doesn't reasonnable to me x)

I'm not afraid of reading what other people think, it doesn't change wether or not what they say is true or reasonnable or logic, instead i try to use my brain and try to see for myself for each particular topic.

The quality system, as the devs have intended, is very poorly designed. It's self contradictory as the yield probability design encourages using quality in every step, but everything else like conflicting with speed module and not-stacking-across-quality work against it. It's only playable right now because of asteroid rolling and LDS shuffling.

Naa it's good, proof are how people interact with it instead of ignoring it. But it could be better, from what is seen on reddit you cannot really form an opinion on how the system will be afterward because only one announce was made, an people are extrapolating how the "rebalanced system" will turn out to be with only limited information.

[*]Leaking screenshots from Discord is against Privacy!
Just play the game.

No this was public discord !

Also yes, just play the game x)

[coffee-factorio]

I cant even tell what to be upset about?

If you make a change here specifically then you have folks that have to redesign that part of their factory. Which...

I mean it is an infinite resource grind for quality? You could be forgiven for expressing a bit of pain if you invested in it. But Nillaus point blank said "I think this is probably going to get nerfed" when they did a video on it.

[Tertius]

OMG, they're probably going to nerf the overpowered game mechanics. Relax. That's happening every day in the game-space. It keeps games healthy because it keeps them balanced instead of single-sided. It's about alternatives and keeps games interesting by offering different viable choices.

I don't understand the reference to "reddit influence". Reddit is just a community platform, just like this forum. The players voice their opinion, that's all.

Just the other day I explained somewhere every single quality item starts with corresponding normal items as most basic core quality mechanic, so you cannot create legendary items from legendary items but must start upcycling from normal for every single legendary item. This is true for each of its ingredients as well. LDS casting is violating this principle, because you can actually create legendary copper and legendary steel from legendary plastic while not consuming legendary plastic at high LDS productivity.

Asteroid upcycling is almost the same, because it is a mining process that directly yields legendary ore, and the whole ore refining process afterwards can profit from huge productivity bonus in every step. Every other ore mining process starts from normal ore and is vastly inferior.

So a nerf of these 2 processes is justified to keep game balance. I guess it's not just removed but other upcycling methods investigated and perhaps adjusted accordingly to keep overall quality production balanced. This balancing in general is one of the few things that were not tested and refined good enough at 2.0 release.

If this destroys your base and you cannot play without that, then Factorio is probably not the right game for you. It's about finding engineering solutions. So go and find a new solution if the old one doesn't work any more.

Ever played a multiplayer game like a MMO? Every update, every nerf and buff is instantly hitting every player. There is just one game version. You cannot skip updates you don't like. You can never go back. After the update, the previous game doesn't exist any more. It never existed. The new game is as it is - you have to cope with that. If you think this way, gaming is super easy, because you don't need to painstakingly check every update for changes you don't like. You just play the game, and if something doesn't work any more, fix it. Or mod it, if it's a single player game.

[Stargateur]

Notice I don't really care of the subject itself, my point was mainly I don't want drama on reddit influence dev decision. No matter the decision on the subject, I just wish dev choice is based on their own opinion about it and not because of social pressure.

I don't understand the reference to "reddit influence". Reddit is just a community platform, just like this forum. The players voice their opinion, that's all.

No, reddit is not a forum, forum encourage slow talk and debate, reddit encourage social mobilization, it's not bad in itself, but it can be bad for case like this where its look like a majority of peoples are vocal about something while in reality it's a minority.

[pioruns]

Notice I don't really care of the subject itself, my point was mainly I don't want drama on reddit influence dev decision. No matter the decision on the subject, I just wish dev choice is based on their own opinion about it and not because of social pressure.

I don't understand the reference to "reddit influence". Reddit is just a community platform, just like this forum. The players voice their opinion, that's all.

No, reddit is not a forum, forum encourage slow talk and debate, reddit encourage social mobilization, it's not bad in itself, but it can be bad for case like this where its look like a majority of peoples are vocal about something while in reality it's a minority.

You are absolutely right, some very vocal folks are crying about something on Reddit? If someone wanted things to change, they could create a topic here and engage with developers, instead of making drama on Reddit. Just ignore it. I haven't open link to Reddit discussion and I am absolutely not interested what's going on there, devs shouldn't too.

[Tertius]

Notice I don't really care of the subject itself, my point was mainly I don't want drama on reddit influence dev decision. No matter the decision on the subject, I just wish dev choice is based on their own opinion about it and not because of social pressure.

I'm pretty sure the devs of any game are aware of this and make their own decision. As far as I know, only about 1 player out of 1000 is voicing their opinion in some kind of forum. Valid arguments against some change are seldomly a result of a shitstorm. If the devs feel they could have feedback about some intended change, I guess they would create some fff blog post and present their current planning.

[pioruns]

Just look at it here, Factorio Space Age on Steam:

07-22-2025, 12-22-56.png (81.86 KiB) Viewed 348 times

Nothing to see here, ignore reddit drama queens. And devs, change nothing, game is very good. Just stay your course with usual development you have planned.

[Tertius]

Hehe, during early access Factorio was the best rated game on Steam for some time.

[Panzerknacker]

Space Age is getting good reviews but not as good as Factorio did before 2.0.

Few things I wanna say, as I hope devs might be reading this thread. First, Reddit is trash. You never know how many bots are there trying to manipulate the direction of your game for whatever reason (remember your game can soak hundreds of hours of play time, that is tens of times more than average 'AAA' game, you are in fact major competition).

Second, Space Age was developed inhouse without early access. I think devs knew that it was going to be impossible to balance it properly prior to release but still underestimated it. The game just needs many hours of gametime in order to fit the pieces of the puzzle together. I'm sure the devs are working hard on 1.1. I think the devs, under lead of Kovarex, really know what to change and what not. I think it's fine if they pull ideas from the community but not let the community decide what to implement or not implement, what to change or not to change. That happened to World of Warcraft and we know how that ended. Just breaks everyone's factory, we don't care as long as the game gets better, right guys?

Third, I think 2.0 without Space Age currently is a regression compared to 1.1.110. Many changes feel out of place imo and especially the changed fluid system really dumbs down the gameplay around factory design. Maybe that's why positive reviews have dropped a bit. You still gotta remember not everyone is buying Space Age, many people first buy only the game itself to check it out, imo they are getting a watered down experience with 2.0 and it's boring fluid system. All the quality-of-life 'improvements' can't ever make up for that. I know people can choose to play 1.1 still but it's not the default option and not obvious of course for new players to try a older version.

[trancexpress]

Just breaks everyone's factory, we don't care as long as the game gets better, right guys?

Ugh if my factory breaks in a big way, I'm out.

[Shulmeister]

Notice I don't really care of the subject itself, my point was mainly I don't want drama on reddit influence dev decision. No matter the decision on the subject, I just wish dev choice is based on their own opinion about it and not because of social pressure.

Good idea to let everyone on this forum knows what happens on reddit, and also at the same time tell them to ignore it !

Don't look up !

[Kingdud]

I haven't gotten to the point where I'm using LDS shuffle just yet. I did build part of a ship to explore what it would take to do it and holy-moley it was insane (mostly because I ignored quality...mistake! even rare crushers make a HUGE difference). But either way, it's very much a late-game thing unless you play very slowly. You're probably going to get all the achievements long before you get LDS shuffle going. So if that needs mods after the fact? Ok. If you aren't going for achievements, why *not* mod?

Personally, I have some ideas brewing for how I would go about making mods for late game mega-basing. The cries of people wanting me to update my mods for Space Age did not fall on deaf ears, but I used the unlicense and made source code available for good reasons.

As with all my other UPSgrade mods, quality is fundamentally a brute-force method. Some methods are better than others, but condensing hundreds of buildings into one, that consumes the same inputs as the individual buildings, and yields the same results...that's what all my other mods did. Why would I NOT do that again? Personally i think having purpose-built buildings for quality fluid activities makes far more sense. Legendary Iron Ore should become legendary liquid iron. "But quality modules..." yeah, I have an idea for how I'm going to do that. We'll see if the game lets me. There's what *should* work, and then there's what *does* work.

[NineNine]

Just breaks everyone's factory, we don't care as long as the game gets better, right guys?

Ugh if my factory breaks in a big way, I'm out.

You'd quit playing a game because the most recent version might change the mechanics? That doesn't really make any sense. Why wouldn't you just stick with an older version of the game if the updated mechanics bother you so much?

[pioruns]

Just breaks everyone's factory, we don't care as long as the game gets better, right guys?

Ugh if my factory breaks in a big way, I'm out.

You'd quit playing a game because the most recent version might change the mechanics? That doesn't really make any sense. Why wouldn't you just stick with an older version of the game if the updated mechanics bother you so much?

That's Reddit-style mentality. Make a drama out of nothing, just to show one's importance.