Gleba has killed the game for me.

[aka13]

I feel like the most important circuit missing for my enjoyment, after all this time remains cross-surface comms. I still don't vibe with "but let it run constantly and void stuff".

[mmmPI]

I still don't vibe with "but let it run constantly and void stuff".

Then don't do it ?

You don't need cross surface comms, after all this time you surely have come accross smarts solutions

[Taurondir]

This game ... is one of the most Moddable games ever made.

If a player has a problem with something, there will be a mod or a setting to make the "annoying" thing go away. I understand that Gleba is annoying, so:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/gleba-reborn
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/better_gleba_start
... https://mods.factorio.com/mod/delete-gleba

One could say "but I should be able to play easier the way it is", well, some game with limited ability to change things will probably annoy everyone, and when EVERYONE is annoyed, things sometimes change as a whole. In Factorio, WE can control everything down to the most minute level, so if Gleba is so bad, just work around Gleba.

All I am saying here is that if your topic was "Gleba is really REALLY annoying do you people agree" I would be backing you up, but saying "Gleba killed my game" is nonsensical. It's like saying "they changed oxygen mechanics in my fav space survival game, I quit" and when told "just untick the new box in Settings called "use new oxygen mechanics" the person sais "BUT I WANT TO PLAY IT WITHOUT TICKING BOXES", I'm sorry but it's a bit weird.

You quit games when the game as a whole CAN NOT be made playable to you because "the problem" cant be dealt with, ie online games you can't control. Factorio is NOT that game.

[thelordodin]

This game ... is one of the most Moddable games ever made.

If a player has a problem with something, there will be a mod or a setting to make the "annoying" thing go away. I understand that Gleba is annoying, so:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/gleba-reborn
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/better_gleba_start
... https://mods.factorio.com/mod/delete-gleba

One could say "but I should be able to play easier the way it is", well, some game with limited ability to change things will probably annoy everyone, and when EVERYONE is annoyed, things sometimes change as a whole. In Factorio, WE can control everything down to the most minute level, so if Gleba is so bad, just work around Gleba.

All I am saying here is that if your topic was "Gleba is really REALLY annoying do you people agree" I would be backing you up, but saying "Gleba killed my game" is nonsensical. It's like saying "they changed oxygen mechanics in my fav space survival game, I quit" and when told "just untick the new box in Settings called "use new oxygen mechanics" the person sais "BUT I WANT TO PLAY IT WITHOUT TICKING BOXES", I'm sorry but it's a bit weird.

You quit games when the game as a whole CAN NOT be made playable to you because "the problem" cant be dealt with, ie online games you can't control. Factorio is NOT that game.

You didn't get the point: "Gleba has killed the game for me" - is about game impression on me. I was playing, I was having fun, but after Gleba I quit my playthrough. And not once. It happen several times (3 times in my case). I start playing, I'm having fun, then - boom - I don't want to play it anymore... And what interesting I was switching planets and mods but still - it happens on Gleba.

Now I'm playing with different modset long time (that I haven't played Factorio at all) and I have conquired Gleba partially, but still not fully, so for now I don't know if it will or will not ruin my play this time.

So, when people write in this topic they just want to point out the fact that "Gleba just struck us out of the game! We don't like it!".

[dabalciunas]

Most people don't like Spoilage. Why?

Factorio is, most of the time, a zen game - unless you like to hardcore yourself in death worlds. With so many logical challenges, it is definitely not the kind of "rush against the clock" game.

Therefore I think the Spoilage mechanics introduce to much unnecessary pressure for certain players. And by not having a net positive seed/tree production in Nauvis (I can't understand why, it is almost the same climate), players got forced onto this on Gleba.

I understand the rage, I don't like much spoilage too, but after so much effort spent by the dev team on this... But I don't see an obvious solution, other than simply making Gleba easier. In my humble opinion, Gleba should be a hardcore planet in the sense of dealing with hardcore jungle/swamp enemies, not rushing against your own factory. A quick-growing forest would be a nice challenge too, with some plants growing over and destroying your walls.

I was expecting a DUNE-like planet in the Space Age expansion instead too, but I think Nauvis is still the closest we have to that today.

[Hurkyl]

With so many logical challenges, it is definitely not the kind of "rush against the clock" game.

rushing against your own factory.

Isn't this self-inflicted, though? There isn't really any intrinsic time pressure in building a factory on Gleba: scenarios where you feel the need to rush against the clock are things a player sets up themselves.

E.g. things like mining all the Yumako trees in an area when you haven't figured out a self-sustaining loop. Or habitually filling your handcrafting queue with mash/jelly/nutrients when you aren't actually ready to use them.

Or sometimes things that don't even matter like successfully getting a self-sustaining factory going, but being upset at having a chest of bioflux spoil before you've built something that can use it all.

But I don't see an obvious solution

... so it might help to find some way to encourage people to more quickly start thinking about what they're doing rather than staying locked in bad habits that are making things difficult.

But I feel this has high risk of infringing on the boundary between "the game gives you a sandbox to figure things out and come up with your own solutions" and "the game is telling you how to play".

And by not having a net positive seed/tree production in Nauvis (I can't understand why, it is almost the same climate),

? For every (mature) tree your towers harvest on Nauvis, you get enough wood to make two tree seeds. And that's without any productivity bonuses.

[Kyralessa]

This is a game about automation, right? You shouldn't be rushing around hand-filling machines on Gleba. The idea on Gleba is the same as on every other planet: To create a self-sustaining system. It's just that on the other planets you slap down a row of assembly machines, inserters, and belts, and you're good to go. But on Gleba it's a bit more complicated.

Take iron bacteria.

• In a biochamber, 1 iron bacteria produces 4. So you need some iron bacteria to get started.
• But this means if you run out of iron bacteria (or they all spoil to iron ore), your production stops. So you also need, at the head of the line, an assembly machine producing iron bacteria from jelly, to jump-start the line.
• You also need bioflux for the main recipe.
• You also need a lot of nutrients. Hey, bioflux is perfect for that. One biochamber turning bioflux into nutrients can supply itself and a lot of additional biochambers.
• But occasionally it'll happen that the line backs up and the nutrients all spoil, including those in the bioflux biochamber. So you also need an assembly machine turning spoilage into (half-spoiled) nutrients to jump-start the bioflux-to-nutrients biochamber.

These extra needed assembly machines might not be obvious at first. What's obvious is coming back to your iron bacteria line and discover that all your nutrients are spoiled, or all your iron bacteria has turned into ore. You can manually hoover up all the spoilage or set up chests to hold the excess iron ore, but that won't fix your system; it just restarts one cycle. The goal on Gleba is to make the system self-sustaining, so you don't have to keep running back to fix things.

Unlike all the other planets, on Gleba every resource is unlimited except stone. Yumako and jellynut are unlimited as long as you're processing them in biochambers and replanting the seeds. Everything else is either made downstream from those, or is self-seeding like bacteria or pentapod eggs.

In my current game (where I dropped to Gleba with nothing but my mech armor and construction bots), I set up pentapod egg production and then agricultural science production, but then realized I didn't have a rocket yet.

So I did...nothing. I let the science flow and started working on blue circuits.

Didn't a lot of science spoil? Yes, absolutely. But so what? I'm not running out of anything. I don't have to keep seeking out new ore or oil fields. My fruits keep growing, and new science keeps being made, and if half of it goes to waste, that just gives me more spoilage to burn.

Don't worry about waste on Gleba. Just debug and fix your system.

[dabalciunas]

But I feel this has high risk of infringing on the boundary between "the game gives you a sandbox to figure things out and come up with your own solutions" and "the game is telling you how to play".

This is exactly what I feel when playing not just in Gleba, but in Factorio 2.0. Most of the time, I try to find alternative solutions, even if extremely resource-inefficient, but more convenient to my gameplay, but I fail to do so. The game now dictates a specific sequence of events on specific planets, with relatively low flexibility. Sure, after end-of-game, you can extend and modify your factory to do some alternative production, but still glued to many limitations imposed by the planets. That's my feeling on how the game evolved, as a long time player (~2017).

And I still find it funny how barrels are a thing and they still have almost no use. If they could at least be used for special liquids, like Thruster Oxidyzer / Fuel, Holmium Solution, Electrolyte, Ammoniacal Solution, Ammonia, Lithium Brine. I just don't care about efficiency, just about availability, try different setups inefficient or not, but maybe just more convenient. New non-straightforward puzzles, if you know what I mean.

[angramania]

This is exactly what I feel when playing not just in Gleba, but in Factorio 2.0. Most of the time, I try to find alternative solutions, even if extremely resource-inefficient, but more convenient to my gameplay, but I fail to do so.

It was stated before, but I can repeat: Gleba gives to players many ways to solve its puzzle. Bots or belts. Burn spoilage or use everything. The most advanced defense lines or peace coexistence. Any combination of all mentioned and also many intermediate solutions. There is no "right" way to solve Gleba. Other planets have less variability but still have it. How many ways to kill demolishers have you tried? How many ways to solve energy problem on Fulgora? Have you tried to go to other planets at very different tech levels and in different order? And so on, and so on. It is not the game, who dictates "right" way.

[aka13]

Surprisingly, I find myself agreeing, that Gleba provides more alternatives to solving it's spoilage puzzle, compared to quality

ignoring the space casinos

or the space platforms

I still don't like the spoilage puzzle and it ruined the dlc for me

[jodokus31]

And I still find it funny how barrels are a thing and they still have almost no use.

Barrels are very useful. It would be bummer, if they got removed, which luckily most likely won't happen.
Think about bringing a bit of lubricant to Vulcanus for crafting first foundries.
Also bots and fluids esp. in more complex scenarios, is very nice.
Trains with different fluid barrels as cargo opposed to fluid wagons, which is less flexible.
etc.

[mmmPI]

Think about bringing a bit of lubricant to Vulcanus for crafting first foundries.

hon-hon sorry bad example ! there's simple coal liquefaction to get the first bits of heavy oil for foundries ! Unless you mean an alternative methods that are not so straighforward and not regarding efficency, then yes i can imagine doing this

I agree with barrels = fluid for bots and also to transfer to platform like fluoroketone, they are also a not so straight forward alternatives to pipes, which is what i thought was requested by @dabalciunas, alternative methods, yeah you can't barrel everything, but that's also the point otherwise there would be less reason to come up with different solutions, some things are specific to certain planets and you have to deal with it in different ways, that is bound to generate restrictions on each one but it's a strech i feel to say you are forced to play in a specific way, you're not forced onto one solution, more like onto one problem.

[jodokus31]

Think about bringing a bit of lubricant to Vulcanus for crafting first foundries.

hon-hon sorry bad example ! there's simple coal liquefaction to get the first bits of heavy oil for foundries ! Unless you mean an alternative methods that are not so straighforward and not regarding efficency, then yes i can imagine doing this

It's more, that you have slightly less to setup to get foundries asap. for simple coal liquefaction, you need acid, calcite and coal, which is not much, but some barrels of lubricant is faster, unless you want to optimize for rocket cargo. Barrels a not very heavy. 2 barrels for 5 foundries. But refined concrete is considerably heavier.
So, yeah, I guess, it's not super beneficial, just bit a faster to setup, when you bring ingredients via spaceship. As soon, you have the foundries, vulcanus gets much faster. Maybe some kind of speedrun mindset, which pops up here I really like to optimize for time efficiency.

[mmmPI]

2 barrels for 5 foundries.

said this way , that make sense to me, plus for vulcanus you can put the barrels in lava to somplify things if you want to go fast, it's just not my playstyle it didn't strike me as beneficial at first