What to do in the Space Age post game?

[coffee-factorio]

To use a Super Mario 64 analogy, reaching the System Edge feels like a good 70 star objective, but the game lacks a developer-imposed 120 star objective.
Getting all achievements doesn't fulfil that role, as you don't need your factory to grow to get 100% achievements.

Although, the problem for game designers here is that a player could cheese pretty much everything;
Let's say the devs introduce an official science production benchmark. You could just stockpile the science packs in advance over time, instead of genuinely producing, say, 100 science per second. If there's a check against stockpiling the packs, you could stockpile intermediaries instead, and so on.

What I run into is that there's just a lot of ways of building unsustainable factories as a result of what you're talking about.
Quality compounds this because if you take up an optimized design the dev team went out of their way to make it dull. I don't have a suite of tools to apply critical thinking with, I have a mechanic that goes out of its way to provoke questions. Instead of provoking answers you just kind of ignore the thing that's yelling at you in ways which are critical or bitter.

It ends up feeling unrealistic because things like P-NP problems have effective solutions that yield significantly different outcomes. It's comparable to the Collatz Conjecture function where "It takes too long and then its 1-4-2-1". And the answer to making it not take to long is "always use a power of 2".

[mmmPI]

Although i liked the super mario 64 analogy, i think the collatz conjecture function analogy makes no sense.

Edit : Nevermind it's actually brilliant, now i realize the pertinence of the analogy, indeed , whatever random situation you begin with that the game throw at you , it can feel like you end up in a cycle of repetition, always the same , as if you were stuck in a collatz function, repeating the same pseudo random litany of blueprint no matter how the discussion of the factory started.

I think to me it boils down to creativity, factorio is like a music instrument, if you like a melody , like a blueprint , you will work on it , improve it, make it yours, but that doesn't mean you can't like another melody, and work on another one, there's no "one best way to play the guitar". I feel it's on you if you reuse the same blueprint all the time like 4 2 1 4 2 1 , it means in a way you think you can't improve your blueprint anymore, i feel there's a lack of humbleness that you could potentially aquire when trying mods that forces you out of the confortatble routine you entrapped yourself into. Trying new things is definitly what i would advise in this situation, mods introducing new content "post game" or even mods modifying the tech tree, that will make you rethink what you thought you knew. Sometimes it can feel like you've reach a cap in your ability , your blueprint are so good they are the "best you can do" but it doesn't usually stays this way does it ? If you think you did reach your cap, then set yourself up for another challenge !

[Panzerknacker]

Your mods arguments don't hold up. Only because there are mods doesn't mean the base game can't be changed and improved.

[mmmPI]

Your mods arguments don't hold up. Only because there are mods doesn't mean the base game can't be changed and improved.

That's a strawman , i never said the game can't be changed and improved on the contrary :

devs have stated already they plan changes for 2.1, i don't see the need to put a negative spin on it , especially when it's unsubstantiated, i feel the game is good , they try to make it better, but for this i feel they need articulated feedback by players, which unfortunatly appears to be viewed as "wall of text" from your end, severly limiting subsequent expectations of productive discussion.

I mentionned i could improve the clarity of the previous message that was addressing the belief i have that your feedback isn't articulated enough to generate productive ideas or discussion.

[coffee-factorio]

Edit : Nevermind it's actually brilliant, now i realize the pertinence of the analogy, indeed , whatever random situation you begin with that the game throw at you , it can feel like you end up in a cycle of repetition, always the same , as if you were stuck in a collatz function, repeating the same pseudo random litany of blueprint no matter how the discussion of the factory started.

I think to me it boils down to creativity, factorio is like a music instrument, if you like a melody , like a blueprint , you will work on it , improve it, make it yours, but that doesn't mean you can't like another melody, and work on another one, there's no "one best way to play the guitar". I feel it's on you if you reuse the same blueprint all the time like 4 2 1 4 2 1 , it means in a way you think you can't improve your blueprint anymore, i feel there's a lack of humbleness that you could potentially aquire when trying mods that forces you out of the confortatble routine you entrapped yourself into. Trying new things is definitly what i would advise in this situation, mods introducing new content "post game" or even mods modifying the tech tree, that will make you rethink what you thought you knew. Sometimes it can feel like you've reach a cap in your ability , your blueprint are so good they are the "best you can do" but it doesn't usually stays this way does it ? If you think you did reach your cap, then set yourself up for another challenge !

The second paragraph works and that's what you want to get to.

The Collatz function is {n % 2 ? n/2 : 3n + 1 }. It's notoriously difficult. The hint is that if you iterate the function, even numbers become odd numbers and odd numbers become even numbers. So it generates the dirty tricks paradoxes have where they iterate (usually by recursion, which is quality's trick)
and present logic which is contradictory (you cannot say whether n is even or odd without contradicting yourself).

As an expression it does contradictory things and trolls you while you try and solve it. So if I put in 3, I get 10, 5, 16, and the first statement of the ternary operator is going to "crash" the sequence to 1. The issue isn't the stable 1 4 2 1 pattern that results after that happens. The issue is that on your way to that, you visit 10 and 5. So you immediately know the outcome of visiting those seeds is a 16, 8, 4, 2, 1 factory.

It's a quirk of that problem in particular that it generates a situation where once you know the values they follow consistent patterns.

So what you have to do is back off the language of the problem itself. Since it is iteration which is generating contradictory logic, if you make
a trivial gesture to not do that you're solving better problems. There's an analog of "play the base game without quality" that's realized as
"fill out a multiplication table" that'll work for one person and not another.

This is a bit different than problems from P-NP where, there's a suite of valid solutions you can tailor to fit an instance of a problem. And you get into a paradox style situation when you try and ask "how fast does it go"?

[mmmPI]

This is a bit different than problems from P-NP

I think not, i think it is the same way of putting convoluted non-sense and or unrelated thing to the original topic as i thought you were refering to when comparing yourself to a collatz function.

I understand it illustrate one of the answer to the original question, in post game to occupy oneself

I understand you wanted to claify your earlier statement, but in doing so you just repeated yourself and ignored the answer you received.

I feel i can more easily picture now how it can happen in game that one always does the same trick, maybe without recognizing it.

I understand you find a way to deal with it by using the warpdrive mod, that's good for you even though it doesn't works when you add it to an existing save game, i feel other people when asking the same question may be a after different mods, but that's fine because there's plenty of them.

[Panzerknacker]

How about u just piss off trying to get the last word in every thread that isnt urs. Ur strategy is so obvious, continue writing walls of nonsense until the point where people don't even know wtf ur talkin about and dont even care to reply anymore. But then at least u got the last word which is what ur after all the time.

It's the same every time somebody comes up with valid critisism against the current state of the game that they paid for.

Disrespecful kid poluting the forums. This has been going on for way too long now. If Wube care about their forums, their game and their community they better start taking part again in discussion here so this douche can stfu finally.

Otherwise we will spread the word outside of here how bad situation is and how game is not moving forward.

[mmmPI]

How about u just piss off trying to get the last word in every thread that isnt urs. Ur strategy is so obvious, continue writing walls of nonsense until the point where people don't even know wtf ur talkin about and dont even care to reply anymore. But then at least u got the last word which is what ur after all the time.

It's the same every time somebody comes up with valid critisism against the current state of the game that they paid for.

Disrespecful kid poluting the forums. This has been going on for way too long now. If Wube care about their forums, their game and their community they better start taking part again in discussion here so this douche can stfu finally.

Otherwise we will spread the word outside of here how bad situation is and how game is not moving forward.

I think you need to chill, you're obviously very frustrated but i can't really help it, you haven't provided any argument on this thread, i try my best to answer the question that was asked : "What to do in the space age post game ?" as a player for everyone to read, if you disagree or if doesn't work for you, to be fair it's understandable, everyone has different opinion, that why there's so many different mods, but it wasn't necessarily adressed to you in particular, you can't just say stfu to someone that actually participate in a discussion when all you do is throwing couple personnal attack and calling the rest wall of text and expect to be taken seriously. Check the first post, re-read it , the question appears to me "which mod can i use ?" , not " please repeat what i said in a more dramatic way".