Idea for balancing crushers

[cyx2020f]

Decrease the base quality of asteroid crushers to -0.5 (internal value, displays as -5% in current game), so rare quality 2 modules or uncommon quality 3 modules are required to start a functional space casino while not decreasing the diversity of the game.

[angramania]

Interesting, when anti space casinos guys will realize that legendary copper, iron, plastic, etc are not problem at all with any method. Main shortage for legendary is holmium, tungsten, etc. Unique resources that are absent in space. Stop tilting at windmills and focus on real problems.

[CyberCider]

Interesting, when anti space casinos guys will realize that legendary copper, iron, plastic, etc are not problem at all with any method. Main shortage for legendary is holmium, tungsten, etc. Unique resources that are absent in space. Stop tilting at windmills and focus on real problems.

I don’t see how upcycling vanilla items is any easier/different from from upcycling Space Age ones. It’s the same process, so the complexity is the same. The reason space casino and LDS shuffle need attention is because they use a significantly simpler process and still have hugely good performance. That’s like if electric furnaces were more efficient than foundries, or if basic oil processing produced much more gas than advanced.

[angramania]

I don’t see how upcycling vanilla items is any easier/different from from upcycling Space Age ones. It’s the same process, so the complexity is the same. The reason space casino and LDS shuffle need attention is because they use a significantly simpler process and still have hugely good performance.

Direct upcycling of iron/copper plates is complex? Just assemble and disassemble copper cables and iron gears. Even blue science pack is more complex. I doubt that anyone care about complexity. Main question is about resource efficiency. But copper, iron, plastic are infinite. Both in space and on some planets. So there is no real difference between space casino and upcycling. Holmium and tungsten are different. They are very limited and you really should care about efficiency. But space casino can't help you with that.

[CyberCider]

Direct upcycling of iron/copper plates is complex? Just assemble and disassemble copper cables and iron gears. Even blue science pack is more complex. I doubt that anyone care about complexity. Main question is about resource efficiency. But copper, iron, plastic are infinite. Both in space and on some planets. So there is no real difference between space casino and upcycling. Holmium and tungsten are different. They are very limited and you really should care about efficiency. But space casino can't help you with that.

Well, if you want resource efficiency, then you should be using upcyclers such as blue circuits and LDS, because those can reach 300% productivity. And unlike gears and cables, those have multiple ingredients. This makes them a lot more complex that space casino, especially since the ratio between the ingredients is probabilistic. Space casino has no distinct ingredients or products, the recipe both inputs and outputs asteroids. You just put an asteroid through the same recipe over and over again, you don’t need to build anything besides different variants of that one recipe. If you have one asteroid, you can already put it in the crusher, there are no other ingredients to wait for. You have to sort the asteroids, sure, but you also do that in any upcycler that’s decently good. And if you have an excess of one asteroid, you can turn it into exactly the one you want, while with most regular items you can’t do that. You can’t turn a copper cable into a steel plate, you need to make logistics that will take it to its proper place. Space casino also only handles ores, it doesn’t require any logistical inputs. While an upcycler for a product requires a whole real factory to produce all of the common items that go into it.

I don’t find resources to be limited at all, in any situation. Space Age, for some reason, decided to make mining productivity so easy to obtain that all resources have basically become infinite. My guess is that the developers changed their minds about depleting resources being a mechanic in the game, so they soft-removed it by making it so easy to overcome. To me, the main figure of merit for a quality production line is how expensive it is to build, because that determines how quickly I can scale it up. That means the goal is high throughput, to minimize the number of machines. And that leads to interestint choices of recipe, such as blue underground belts for gears/iron, big power poles for steel, heat exchangers for copper, etc.

I doubt that anyone care about complexity.

Then what do you think the developers are even doing all day? What is a factory game about if not complexity? Factorio has always been about designing factories that become better and better as they become more complex to design. They produce more advanced science packs, are faster, and are more resource efficient (in the base game, where resource depletion is a real concern). But only if you extract more different resources, produce more complex products, change the ratios with productivity modules, change the layouts with beacons, etc.