Move "Coal Synthesis" tech to Directly-Post-First-Rocket-Launch Space-Platform era

[mikehendi]

What:
Decouple "Coal Synthesis" recipe from the "Gleban Rocket Turret technology", and make "Coal Synthesis" researchable as a seperate technology with Red/Green/Blue/Space science around the time the player researches asteroid collectors and thrusters.

Why:
This gives the player the possibility to research coal synthesis and start aqcuiring coal on fulgora (from space platform), which is required to make grenades for military science packs and as such produce all 7 nauvisian science packs on fulgora. It feels like an unintended

(I think I understand why it was originally attached to the rocket turrets tech, as you suddenly will need coal for the explosives to actually use the rocket turrets on coalless gleba, but locking coal synthesis behind a coal-requiring military-science-technology prevents the player from being able to research coal synthesis on both fulgora and gleba, unless military science is set up elsewhere. The rocket turret itself obviously sits at the right place in the tech tree, this suggestion is just about making coal acquirable on fulgora and gleba when starting with nothing (or a destroyed nauvis base)

Savefile:
Attached is a savefile with Fulgora as first planet where it would be great to be able to research the coal synthesis tech to complete all possible science packs on fulgora and in doing so, enable the research of the fulgoran goodies like power armor mk2-->mech armor ON fulgora.

[lechantyszwab]

I agree with this Problem.

I am currently stranded on Gleba as my 1st planet (after Nauvis), and am a bit annoyed that I cannot research anything that needs military science. Which is not helpful given the nasty pentapods.

[CyberCider]

You people really do entire researches on other planets? You’re supposed to send planet science packs back to Nauvis, and do the research there. Or, alternatively, you could just send military science from Nauvis to your planet of choice, if you’re in such a rush.

[dragon_gawain]

You people really do entire researches on other planets? You’re supposed to send planet science packs back to Nauvis, and do the research there. Or, alternatively, you could just send military science from Nauvis to your planet of choice, if you’re in such a rush.

"Supposed to" isn't something that I think should apply to factorio. You should be free to do whatever you want, even if it wasn't the "intended" path.
I personally enjoy setting up all the sciences on all the planets as it forces me to make a large scale factory everyone, making me truly understand the planet and the unique ways I get the resources from there.
I'll take Gleba as my example here: the Gleba pack needs no copper or iron to make. So, you can completely ignore the entire bacteria -> raw ore chain and just make your science packs. Making all the science there means that you are forced to interact with the stuff. And since science is typically the end product, if you're not making science, what are you making?
That being said, making the packs and just shipping them out is also cool! Play your own way!

Also, what if you're doing a botless run and can't remotely ship stuff? That's also a valid way to play. In this case, you'd need to build the rocket, go back to Nauvis, set up military, then go back. Which can be an annoying process.

[CyberCider]

"Supposed to" isn't something that I think should apply to factorio. You should be free to do whatever you want, even if it wasn't the "intended" path.
I personally enjoy setting up all the sciences on all the planets as it forces me to make a large scale factory everyone, making me truly understand the planet and the unique ways I get the resources from there.
I'll take Gleba as my example here: the Gleba pack needs no copper or iron to make. So, you can completely ignore the entire bacteria -> raw ore chain and just make your science packs. Making all the science there means that you are forced to interact with the stuff. And since science is typically the end product, if you're not making science, what are you making?
That being said, making the packs and just shipping them out is also cool! Play your own way!

Also, what if you're doing a botless run and can't remotely ship stuff? That's also a valid way to play. In this case, you'd need to build the rocket, go back to Nauvis, set up military, then go back. Which can be an annoying process.

Of course you need metal production on Gleba, how else will you make rockets to launch lime science back to Nauvis? And you need a few more rockets to send bioflux (to make biter eggs, and power biochambers on other planets). And then a few more to send items made with carbon fiber (or just the fiber itself, if you’re lazy ).
Also, you really shouldn’t expect devs to actively adjust their game to challenge playstyles such as botless. You should either play the challenge in its full difficulty, or use mods to make it easier if you want.

[dragon_gawain]

Derp, completely forgot about the whole 'rockets need iron' thing. You're right about that. (my thought process had actually been that you just, ship all the stuff needed to build a rocket to Gleba, but uhh, that would be mightily expensive...)

Also, I don't expect the devs to tailor the game to anticipate any and all self imposed challenges. That would be ridiculous. But it would be cool if it's possible.
Heck, the new logistics embargo achievement wants you to not use logi bots (for 1 planet)! So there's the use case for that.

Anyway, the idea of giving the game more possibility routes is a good one to me.

I believe that the original idea behind the post was that to get coal synthesis, you need military science, which you need coal to get. So you can't get coal without needing coal, but if you already have coal, you don't need to synthesize it. And that doesn't make sense. So coal synthesis should be accessible without needing coal in the first place, regardless of where you want to make the tech.