Legendary Yumako & Jelly Nut Seeds should grow legendary plants

[mmmPI]

That is already the case currently.

A sligthly higher return on quality fruits from quality seed would not be a positive i think. It wouldn't simplify the system players have to make to create quality spoilables, they would still have to deal with all the different levels, just in sligthly more favorable ratios. On the other, they will have a much harder time managing their seeds, and activating the proper agricultural tower at the proper moment, as you don't have enough slots in the the tower for all the quality levels, and you risk stockpiling "quality seed" and not finding a use for them, while requiring only "basic" material

Not sure how you are thinking that seed management would become significantly harder. This wouldn't necessitate any kind of tower management.

I'm not thinking it would become significantly harder, it would be mostly the same for the most part, it's part of why i think your particular proposal doesn't work, but it also seem you have missed some parts of why it adds some extra things to do :

Or perhaps that separate towers be designated for each quality being planted, with seeds being sorted and sent to the correct tower.

Yeah otherwise how do you know which trees is legendary and which tree is a normal tree if you do not control properly the agricultural tower ?

That's why i said you need to then activate the agricultural tower at the proper moment. You don't have to call it tower management if you don't like the words lol, it's just that you have to manage which tower is active and when ..........

But in more detail, this system would allow for a degree of "quality momentum" to be built up, without eliminating the need to deal with a percentage of crap-quality stuff.

"quality momentum" isn't a real thing, it's just words between comas, what will happen is that you will run out of basic quality seed if they can give higer quality fruits, that's already what happens when you process yumako or jellynut with quality module, you end up with extra quality seed that you have to plant, otherwise you don't have enough seed to continue planting seed.

But with your proposal, it would break much more frequently for players who do not get it, their quality seed would give quality fruits in towers, andif they process their yumako or jellynut with quality module they will run out of basic fruits and seed .

Here is yet another topic similar btw in suggestion not balancing: viewtopic.php?t=121647

[Rancara]

Yeah otherwise how do you know which trees is legendary and which tree is a normal tree if you do not control properly the agricultural tower ?

You don't need to know. Why are you even thinking that you would?

Picture this:
******* First Harvest *******
- I pull in a crop of common quality Jellynuts and run them through my processors with quality modules. For simplicity, we'll pretend that the whole farm gets harvested all at once, processed all at once, and replanted all at once. It was a full crop, with every available farm space growing a tree.
- I get back about 150% of the seeds needed to replant the whole farm with every space filled.
--- About 9 to 10% of these seeds are now uncommon quality.
--- About 1% are rares.
- I now sort these seeds, sending back the highest quality seeds first.
--- 1% of 150% is 1.5% of 100%. So 1.5% of the seeds I send to replant are rares.
--- 10% of 150% is 15% of 100%. So 15% of what I send back is uncommon.
--- This leaves 83.5% of my replanting stock that I fill with common seeds. I dump the remaining seeds into a heater.
- I don't give a rat's bum where the seeds get planted, or which trees are which quality. Different towers are going to plant mixes of whatever different seeds come to them. They are all going to get harvested and sent back en-masse anyway. All I care is that the farm gets filled all the way, with a full crop, with as many seeds of as high a quality as possible.
******* Second Harvest *******
- Anyway, that's what happens. They all get harvested and sent back. And here, the math gets a bit more tricky.
--- 1.5% of the trees harvested were rares. Each tree gives 50 nuts, of which a certain percentage (on average, it's randomized) are rare, like the tree. Other percentages of its nuts (on average) are uncommon and common. Let's say the chances for rare are 50/30/20. So, this means that of the 1.5% of my nuts that were harvested from rare trees, about 50% are rare nuts, 30% are uncommon, and 20% are common. Multiply each of these by 1.5% (by 0.015), and we see that this accounts for 0.75%, 0.45%, and 0.3% of the entire harvest.
--- For uncommon trees, let's assume they provide 60/40 chances for uncommon and common fruit, respectively. 15% of our harvest came from these trees. Using similar math, we can estimate that from the nuts harvested from uncommon trees, we will get 9% of the entire harvest as uncommons, and 6% as commons.
--- Lastly, all 83.5% of the harvest that came from common trees is common nuts.
--- Add together the percentages from each type of tree, and we see that our harvest is 0.75% rare, 9.45% uncommon, and 89.8% common nuts.
- I now dump these onto my sushi belt for processors running all 3 recipe qualities to grab from. I don't even need to sort stuff yet. The inserters will automatically grab what their recipe uses.
- Once again, I get back about 150% of the seeds I need to completely replant the farm, with small percentages of each quality upgraded to higher qualities. This is what I'm referring to as "quality momentum". I've gained a little bit. This quote:

"quality momentum" isn't a real thing, it's just words between comas(quotation marks, you mean)

is wrong. It's not just words between quote marks. It's an actual effect that you would notice, and can see based on this math.

Anyway. From here, the cycle continues, gaining more of that quality momentum with each cycle.

But with your proposal, it would break much more frequently for players who do not get it, their quality seed would give quality fruits in towers, andif they process their yumako or jellynut with quality module they will run out of basic fruits and seed .

First of all, they will not run out of basic fruit/seed. That is impossible with this system. At least some percentage of the harvest will always come back randomized back down to common.

And even if they would run out, that would be a problem... why exactly? As you can see from the example scenario above, their goal is to maintain as high a quality of a crop as possible. If they get to a point where they no longer have room to plant the poor-quality seeds (by building up that much "quality momentum"), then good for them. That's the player's entire goal with the quality system. To cycle up quality as much as possible.

If they want to maintain a factory's worth of crap quality stuff for some reason, in addition to their quality raising efforts, then they can plant a separate farm that runs into processors that don't use quality modules.

Besides, all that stuff is what balance testing is for. Those percentage chances for each quality of tree would have to be adjusted to make sure that the afore-mentioned quality momentum starts giving diminishing returns, and then caps out, at the correct points.

Here is yet another topic similar btw in suggestion not balancing: viewtopic.php?t=121647

Thanks. I'll check that out.

[mmmPI]

You don't need to know. Why are you even thinking that you would?

Yeah why ? just harvest all your legendary seed and let the fruits spoil because you only needed basic quality.

Your whole point is ridiculous, you've switched to arguing that you wouldn't need to control which tower is active in case they have seeds of different quality, that makes even less sense that the first proposition.

It's an actual effect that you would notice, and can see based on this math.

1 nonsense argument + 1 wrong justification = 2 good reasons to ignore your proposition, i call it "balacing momentum" it's a real effect, as you can see from the math.

[Rancara]

Yeah why ? just harvest all your legendary seed and let the fruits spoil because you only needed basic quality.

Why am I even... *sigh* OK, I'll explain this.

You don't need basic quality. ~Duh~. If you are using the quality system to try and get higher quality fruits in the first place, that means that what you need is high quality. Not basic quality, or you wouldn't be trying for the high stuff.

And for the second (or third?) time, you won't run out of basic quality with what I proposed. Even if every last seed you plant is legendary, a percentage of what you harvest would always come back randomized back down to each of the lower levels.

And for the third (or fourth?) time, you will not EVER wind up with every last seed you plant being legendary. Because the harvest quality chances would be balanced such that your increasing percentage of quality returns (the building quality momentum) starts slowing down, and then eventually caps out.

Your whole point is ridiculous, you've switched to arguing that you wouldn't need to control which tower is active in case they have seeds of different quality, that makes even less sense that the first proposition.

What do you even mean "the first proposition". I'm still talking about the same one. I haven't switched anything. Everything I'm describing is exactly how I envisioned it from the start.

Also, you are just calling it "ridiculous" without giving a single reason why it would be. Even after I just laid out a step-by-step description and simulation of what would happen, and why, demonstrating how it would work without causing any of the nonsensical "problems" you keep coming up with.

At this point, I would start assuming that we are talking past each other, with you misunderstanding my proposition for something other than what I'm trying to describe.
I would think that, except that, as I said, I just outlined a detailed step-by-step description of the proposed system, how it would work, and what would happen with it. Yet you are still talking past me with these supposed "problems" that make absolutely no sense in relation to what I'm proposing. Almost as if you were talking about a completely different game. Except that you aren't.

So I can only assume that
A) You are just being dumb.
B) You have really weird ways of doing things in this game.
C) You have really weird non-standard goals in this game for what you want your factories to do.
D) You didn't actually read my step by step outline, or bother to comprehend it.

In the first case (A). Your opinion on this matter isn't worth listening to. You should shut up and let the thinking people talk.
In cases B and C, Your opinion here is also moot. Because you're basically not playing the game. Just doing goofy stuff with it. You should shut up and let the people talk who actually want to play it, and want to balance it for actual play.
And in case D, again, your opinion is moot. Because you're doing the same thing as those idiots on various forums who try to reply to topics or posts without even reading them. You aren't even arguing against my proposition, because you didn't even bother to know what it is. So you shouldn't be trying to talk about it.

It's an actual effect that you would notice, and can see based on this math.

1 nonsense argument + 1 wrong justification = 2 good reasons to ignore your proposition, i call it "balacing momentum" it's a real effect, as you can see from the math.

Once again. No argument here from you. Just unsupported claims of "it's nonsense" and "it's wrong". You sound like the little kid covering his ears and shouting "YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE WRONG!..." to drown out anything the other kid is saying.

You claimed that my descriptive term "quality momentum" was "just words", and "not a real thing".
I responded by showing you, in detail, what the real thing was that I had coined the term to represent.
You responded with (paraphrase) "Nonsense! Wrong! You're dumb! I don't have to listen to you!".

So clearly, you aren't worth listening to either.

EDIT: You say "balancing momentum". It's not a matter of balancing. It's a matter of building up to a cap. I point you once again to the beginning of this post, to repeat what is said there for the fourth (fifth?) time. Please pay attention to it this time before trying to reply or argue further. If something is still unclear, I'll try to explain further if you ask.