3 gripes after 5000 hours

[Khagan]

Steam tells me that I now have 5000 hours in Factorio. I think many of those are actually the game paused in the background, rather than me actively playing, but OK. About 90% of that is pre-2.0 vanilla, the rest is Space Age. And obviously I wouldn't have racked up anything like that much time if I didn't think Factorio was a great game.

But.

There are nevertheless still a few things that irritate me. Perhaps I ought to be posting this in 'Ideas and Suggestions', but I am sure they have all already been raised there to no avail, so in this post I'm really just venting without any real expectation of change.

1. There is no way to change the default behaviour of temporary train stops from the completely useless 'wait 5 seconds and then buzz off'. Every time I create a temporary stop I immediately have to go in and change the condition to something that will keep the train there long enough for me to react to it before it disappears again. And then when I'm done I have to delete the condition and stop.
   The ability to choose a different default behaviour for these stops would be a huge QoL improvement for me. What I would really like is for arrival at a temporary stop to set the train to manual and automatically delete the stop; but any condition that keeps it there longer than the current default would be some improvement.
2. There is no built-in way to tell how depleted an oil (or other fluid) well is. I try to remember to tag oil-fields with their initial output rate before building on them, but I shouldn't have to do that. The UI should show somewhere, somehow not only the current rate but also either the initial rate or the eventual depleted rate or the fraction of depletion (any one of them would do).
3. There is no way to get a radar to actually warn you when it detects unexpected bugs. Obviously, radars on the edge of the factory will be seeing bugs all the time, but if a radar in supposedly safe territory detects any bugs it should be able to raise a alarm.

[Rseding91]

What are your hopes with #2? Because there's nothing you can do about the value - it will be what it is and that's what it's going to be forever.

For #3: artillery will find and kill anything within its range regardless of radars.

[Khagan]

What are your hopes with #2? Because there's nothing you can do about the value - it will be what it is and that's what it's going to be forever.

Past a certain level of depletion, I want to switch from efficiency modules in the pumpjacks to speed modules.
If the value was accessible to the circuit network, I could use it to prefer drawing oil from already-depleted wells and only deplete the fresh ones when really needed.

For #3: artillery will find and kill anything within its range regardless of radars.

Of course, but that's much later in the game (especially in SA).

[Ranakastrasz]

I agree that the train default is suboptimal in some ways, but how is 5 seconds not long enough for you to react? Or are you just trying to tell the trains to stop? In that case, why not turn them to manual mode?

I suspect that, if you really wanted to, utilize a tank (assuming you can't read a pump's throughput" and determine the output of an oil well via combinator math. But I don't really see a reason to. Sure, you CAN use productivity modules to stretch it out, but ever since mining productivity was added to the game, mining with productivity modules has been rather less impressive, and it seems like a lot of work for little benefit.

The main solution for the radar is that you combine it with an Artillery, which, when the radar spots bugs, promptly applies firepower until there are no longer bugs.

[eugenekay]

Custom Temporary Train Stops lets you configure the wait condition.

Asteroid and Enemy Radar Detection outputs a Signal for each Enemy within range.... however this conflicts with the 2.0 Radar Signal Transmission feature, so it is not actually as useful as a separate enemy-detection building. Enemy Alert is a lot more useful warning mechanism.

Good Luck!

[Khagan]

I agree that the train default is suboptimal in some ways, but how is 5 seconds not long enough for you to react? Or are you just trying to tell the trains to stop? In that case, why not turn them to manual mode?

I tell a train where to go. While it's travelling I might tweak some other part of the base. When I've finished doing that, I check to see if the train has arrived yet. If the train is only willing to wait 5 seconds, I'll probably miss that window.
For short distances, just driving manually is fine, but over longer ones, a train will travel faster and more reliably in automatic mode than in manual.

I suspect that, if you really wanted to, utilize a tank (assuming you can't read a pump's throughput" and determine the output of an oil well via combinator math. But I don't really see a reason to. Sure, you CAN use productivity modules to stretch it out, but ever since mining productivity was added to the game, mining with productivity modules has been rather less impressive, and it seems like a lot of work for little benefit.

The missing information is not the current rate of output; that's available. It's how depleted the well is. And no, I don't bother with productivity modules for mines or pumpjacks: efficiency for mines or fresh wells, speed for depleted wells.

The main solution for the radar is that you combine it with an Artillery, which, when the radar spots bugs, promptly applies firepower until there are no longer bugs.

As I've already said, artillery comes much later, especially in Space Age. And even then it only targets nests and worms. What I really would like an alert for is incoming mobile bugs.

[Kyralessa]

There is no built-in way to tell how depleted an oil (or other fluid) well is. I try to remember to tag oil-fields with their initial output rate before building on them, but I shouldn't have to do that. The UI should show somewhere, somehow not only the current rate but also either the initial rate or the eventual depleted rate or the fraction of depletion (any one of them would do).

One simple, low-tech way to do this:

Before placing pumpjacks, create a map tag for the oil well. But I think those always show the current value, so next to it, in an empty space, create another map tag and manually type in the same value.

The oil well tag value will change over time, but your manually-created tag will always show the original value, so you can compare the two.

[Bömmeli]

I use the tags for ore patches. Initial value + mining start date. Works well for me, so I never thought about an automatism by the game itself.

oretags.jpg (810.47 KiB) Viewed 280 times

[Stargateur]

1. temporary stop is already a quality of life feature, you want a quality life feature on top of a quality of life feature ? And that a gripes ??? damm; you are even more demanding than me

2. true, that could be a thing, infinity rss deplete to either 20% or 20% of their initial value, so 0-100% => 20% and for example 1000% would deplete to 200%.

> Past a certain level of depletion, I want to switch from efficiency modules in the pumpjacks to speed modules.

That kinda weak, just add speed module if you don't have enough oil, depleted or not



3. a signal on radar that output enemy count in radar always reveal range (I thing there was a mod for that in 1.1). There is also https://mods.factorio.com/mod/biterexpa ... rom=search that I found useful.

[Khagan]

Before placing pumpjacks, create a map tag for the oil well. But I think those always show the current value, so next to it, in an empty space, create another map tag and manually type in the same value.

Yes, that's basically what I do. When I remember. And grumble to myself when I don't remember.

[Khagan]

1. temporary stop is already a quality of life feature, you want a quality life feature on top of a quality of life feature ? And that a gripes ??? damm; you are even more demanding than me

It's just frustrating that the feature as it stands is so close to actually being good, but doesn't quite make it.

[mmmPI]

The default behavior for temporary train, i also find not satistfying, but as guessed , there are different (some old ) suggestions for what would be the more intuitive , or the most common use case ,this thread has links to 2 others viewtopic.php?t=94123
Set to manual upon arrival is often mentionned, and would be my favourite, there's even a mod for this https://mods.factorio.com/mod/manual-tr ... tops-fixed !

Before placing pumpjacks, create a map tag for the oil well. But I think those always show the current value, so next to it, in an empty space, create another map tag and manually type in the same value.

Yes, that's basically what I do. When I remember. And grumble to myself when I don't remember.

Maybe i'm not getting, but can't you wire a pumpjack to read the whole patch "expected ressources" ? , write that number in a constant combinator when you create the oil outpost, and then compare it with the one that deplete over time, and use a speaker or a display pannel to tell you when the "current rate" has lowered to XX % of the original value ?

I'm not sure i understand how you determine a pumpjack is "depleted" in game, "when the yield won't decrease anymore" seems obvious but the calculation to known the yield of a depleted pumpjack i think i remember isn't trivial, i would assume if you reach as low as 10% of the original yield you may want to switch module which would be doable with combinators, isn't that "good enough" ?

There is no way to get a radar to actually warn you when it detects unexpected bugs. Obviously, radars on the edge of the factory will be seeing bugs all the time, but if a radar in supposedly safe territory detects any bugs it should be able to raise a alarm.

In one way that sound the obvious purpose of a radar and it would perfectly fit as tickbox.

But i can't help thinking what would an alarm do apart from adding noise to the injury, biters in supposedly safe territory behave nasty usually , so you would get a notification of their presence under the form of an alarm

Do you mind developping the use case ? I can certainly see how this would be useful for mods that spawn random biters at night, but i doubt that's was your goal and i would like to understand.

[Khagan]

Before placing pumpjacks, create a map tag for the oil well. But I think those always show the current value, so next to it, in an empty space, create another map tag and manually type in the same value.

Yes, that's basically what I do. When I remember. And grumble to myself when I don't remember.

Maybe i'm not getting, but can't you wire a pumpjack to read the whole patch "expected ressources" ? , write that number in a constant combinator when you create the oil outpost, and then compare it with the one that deplete over time, and use a speaker or a display pannel to tell you when the "current rate" has lowered to XX % of the original value ?

Absolutely you can. But the key phrase here is "when you create the oil outpost". If you forget to do it then, you can't recover that information later.

I'm not sure i understand how you determine a pumpjack is "depleted" in game, "when the yield won't decrease anymore" seems obvious but the calculation to known the yield of a depleted pumpjack i think i remember isn't trivial, i would assume if you reach as low as 10% of the original yield you may want to switch module which would be doable with combinators, isn't that "good enough" ?

The minimum is 20% (unless you started with a very poor well, when it is more). IIRC the optimum time to switch modules is at around 50% of the original level.

There is no way to get a radar to actually warn you when it detects unexpected bugs. Obviously, radars on the edge of the factory will be seeing bugs all the time, but if a radar in supposedly safe territory detects any bugs it should be able to raise a alarm.

In one way that sound the obvious purpose of a radar and it would perfectly fit as tickbox.

But i can't help thinking what would an alarm do apart from adding noise to the injury, biters in supposedly safe territory behave nasty usually , so you would get a notification of their presence under the form of an alarm

You would get the alarm sooner: when the bugs first enter the range of the radar, rather than when they have already started tearing down the factory. That would give you a chance to get there and deal with them in person before any significant damage has occurred.

[mmmPI]

Absolutely you can. But the key phrase here is "when you create the oil outpost". If you forget to do it then, you can't recover that information later.
IIRC the optimum time to switch modules is at around 50% of the original level.

thanks for the explanations, if you want to switch module or add the priority system to use "already-depleted" pumpjack as main source and the other for peak at some point in the game, i understand you can't find the original value easily.
Never occured to me one could be doing that, if you forget for one outpost, it messes up things in a way that you can't fix easily. Technically you can still recover the information, by regenerating a map with the same seed, and looking at the oil patch that will be all new again. But it's just that "technically", in practice, i understand it's not fun.

You would get the alarm sooner: when the bugs first enter the range of the radar, rather than when they have already started tearing down the factory. That would give you a chance to get there and deal with them in person before any significant damage has occurred.

i'm more convinced by the pumpjack thing, risks are that you would get 2 alarms at the same time, or three or more if you are not lucky. manual intervention are to be avoided , prioritizing already depleted pumpjack and having your system figure out which outpost is now a "depleted one" to send more trains there i find it the more convincing for me personally compared to switching modules (manually).

Here , i feel between the moment when biters enter the radar range and the moment they are eating the radar, there is so few time that you would need to also be in the radar range when this occur to have time to be present to alleviate damage, if you are like 5 to 10 radar range away, you have a warning 5-10 second earlier but you would need 5 minutes to walk there anyway, that kind of bad ratio.( at least that how i'm picturing it ).

Still it's a radar, making noise when it sees ennemy is sort of what is expected of a radar, the suggestion exist : viewtopic.php?t=19637 , other use cases they mention : disabling laser when no ennemy in sight is more the kind of thing that ring a bell to me , sending the artillery train to the area when new nests are detected too